Channels (Channel 'Public' (Public discussion))



Public discussion

20-12-31 10:50:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> wow I made a there/their grammatical error, I apologize
20-12-31 10:50:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> XD
20-12-31 10:50:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> No, let me kinda rephrase that. Some people go and see real turmoil in other countries and then when they return they understand that it's ridiculous that someone might start arguing with the manager at Walmart over if the grapes are 2 cents more this week.
20-12-31 10:50:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's clearly things that still matter that aren't life or death.
20-12-31 10:51:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> But there's also a crapload of things that we squabble over that really have no meaning, a lot of which we probably covered in this conversation and IMO the conversation itself likely doesn't have much value beyond exploring ideas.
20-12-31 10:52:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I was listening to a soldier several years ago and he said something about how... over there, there are people literally dead in the gutters. He said people here have nothing to complain about
20-12-31 10:52:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> so like, because homeless people are dying in gutters over there we shouldn't complain about any social unfairness here... I didn't say anything to him because the look in his eyes was clearly traumatized and the proper expression at that point was sympathy
20-12-31 10:53:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes, even if you see no combat at all, there are plenty of other places in the world where they have it much worse, as a baseline everyday life.
20-12-31 10:53:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> but that perspective is incorrect, we should always be trying to improve
20-12-31 10:54:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> and I'm sure with some conversation he would have eventually come around to like seeing how wrong it is the way we treat our veterans for example
20-12-31 10:54:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> but it wasn't the time to argue so yeah
20-12-31 10:54:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> For example. I live in poverty here in the USA. I know there's a lot of complaints about how difficult it is to live in the USA and how the government doesn't care, blah blah blah, etc. I live on $820 a month and while I understand that people's complaints have validity, I'm extremely grateful to live as well as I do on that low of an amount. There's far more social program structure in this country and locally than people give the USA
20-12-31 10:54:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: credit for and I'm able to live very comfortably on almost nothing because of all of the help that exists for me.
20-12-31 10:55:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah we do have a decent amount of social program structure and I don't know that we need too much more, but we also have a lot of corruption in government due to wealth inequality and a lot of infrastructure issues
20-12-31 10:56:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> clean water in Flint, for example
20-12-31 10:56:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes, there's plenty of issues that need addressed and things that need improved. I'm just also grateful for having what I do have.
20-12-31 10:56:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I'm just saying in general that the existence of large problems elsewhere doesn't nullify the existence of small problems here.. like I'm sure you have small problems in your day-to-day existence
20-12-31 10:57:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> that could have been at least helped by an extra $2000 in covid stimulus πŸ˜„
20-12-31 10:57:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> minus one of those 0's
20-12-31 10:57:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I live in low-income housing and my rent is based on my income. There are folk here that get evicted because they don't pay their rent. I personally can't comprehend how they can be so callous about being given an opportunity to live in a home, when they clearly don't have many options to begin with if they are living here.
20-12-31 10:58:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> maybe some emergency struck and they had to pay that money to fix their car or something?
20-12-31 10:58:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> do you have the chance to save money?
20-12-31 10:58:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> are you going to be able to put a kid through college?
20-12-31 10:59:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The management here are a bit stunned that I pay my rent first thing every month, I don't miss any payments on utilities, I keep my yard and my home clean and maintained. Because far too many folk here don't do those things. I try to remind myself all of the time that I'm lucky to even have a place to live.
20-12-31 10:59:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> It's good to be grateful but it's also good to know when you're being stiffed by the way our society is built, as a human being
20-12-31 11:00:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It'd be nice to assume it's due to a financial emergency, but that's not the case. Cause there's plenty of help out there for people in an actual emergency situation and they wouldn't have been evicted if they were in that situation.
20-12-31 11:01:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> It's not fair for us as a society to let human beings be one fiscal emergency away from homelessness, or rob them of a future in terms of savings and loads of educational debt
20-12-31 11:01:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The unfortunate truth about those folk getting evicted is that they are generally not good people or their lives are falling apart and they aren't doing anything about it. Generally it's drugs.
20-12-31 11:02:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> We definitely need to fix healthcare in the USA, above all else. Yes, there are many folk who are one financial emergency away from being totally screwed.
20-12-31 11:02:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah I figured because populations in poverty tend to have drug problems. Good on you for being strong enough to avoid that
20-12-31 11:03:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm lucky in that I'm disabled poor, meaning that I'm on Supplemental Security Income. My healthcare is 100% taken care of except for some $1 copays on medications and specialist vists.
20-12-31 11:03:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I try not to blame addicts too much though because I don't see weakness as a sin, and escapism - including drugs - is usually provoked by some trauma or another
20-12-31 11:03:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> ah that's really lucky πŸ˜„
20-12-31 11:03:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm definitely a drug addict, I just don't have access to drugs. So instead I use other things to fill my addiction, like games or food.
20-12-31 11:03:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> wow my reaction to hearing you're disabled is that it's lucky
20-12-31 11:04:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> haha our society is so twisted, sorry
20-12-31 11:04:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Not that I've ever done any drugs beyond marijuana though*.
20-12-31 11:04:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah games are definitely my escapist addiction so I can empathize there
20-12-31 11:05:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah well, you're right in that. I've considered what it would take for me to live as comfortably or more comfortably (financially and housing wise). The working poor are totally screwed. I'd have to be making significantly more money than minimum wage to actually improve my plot in life.
20-12-31 11:05:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> as comfortably or more comfortably  * than my current situation.
20-12-31 11:08:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah I was actually thinking about this the other day
20-12-31 11:08:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Like I started out thinking about a text game economy
20-12-31 11:08:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> And how to balance it
20-12-31 11:08:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> And then I realized like... if our day-to-day economy was the economy of a text game
20-12-31 11:08:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> the players would really be complaining
20-12-31 11:09:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> and I thought to myself "If I was staffing a game where I had set up perfectly realistic code of how an economy works, and this happened, what would I tell the players?"
20-12-31 11:09:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> "uh this is perfectly realistic code, you're going to have to roleplay an uprising"
20-12-31 11:10:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> lmfao
20-12-31 11:10:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> only that's not really fair, it's a game that I would be supposed to be managing XD
20-12-31 11:10:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatch linked me a book on economy, something that's of an original text. https://mises.org/library/essay-economic-theory-0
20-12-31 11:11:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I haven't read it, but it's only ~200 pages if you ever consider it.
20-12-31 11:11:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> wow
20-12-31 11:11:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> to be honest I will probably not read it, it looks like it's more about understanding the real market than designing a game
20-12-31 11:12:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> This is another one that was published about 20 years later, but it is also considered a must-read regarding economy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations
20-12-31 11:12:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I have no real experience but I think in games it has to do with making sure there are diminishing returns for being top tier wealthy, lots of money sinks, etc
20-12-31 11:13:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Well, I dunno, Griatch recommended it to me when I was talking about deciding if my merchants had stock incoming from a trading company or not.
20-12-31 11:13:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> At 200 pages long, it can't hurt to read it I suppose. That's only a few hours to read.
20-12-31 11:13:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I guess Griatch knows what he's talking about so when I get around to economy it's probably a worthwhile read
20-12-31 11:14:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Then again, I don't think I'm going to read it either. I just want to make some simple RNG systems behind the merchant's stock that makes it feel a little bit more "natural", but I'm not interested in a true economy system.
20-12-31 11:14:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> A true economy system would probably lead to having to tell the players to stage an uprising XD
20-12-31 11:14:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> ARPGs get you to spend your currency by introducing gambling for the possibility of better items, and also costs to forge items.
20-12-31 11:16:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I want to try and control my inflation a bit by introducing loss. Character loss, item loss, etc. Sinks are less severe, and they will play a part, but at some point you really just gotta take away the toys for a bit, to make the toys more meaningful.
20-12-31 11:16:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think the ultimate outcome is to balance somewhere in the middle. Where veteran players aren't force to redo the noob stuff forever, but also have a higher chance at the top tier elements.
20-12-31 11:17:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Without allowing them to become immortal gods that roll through the game for 10 years with no issues.
20-12-31 11:18:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Which is where meta progression comes into play. The longer you play, the more account-wide upgrades you can buy. Meaning that naturally over time you'll start out with new characters that are always mid-tier.
20-12-31 11:19:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Anyways, I'm heading AFK for awhile. Thanks for the conversation, even though I should have been working on my InventoryHandler haha. @alephate
20-12-31 11:36:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: hi everyone
20-12-31 11:37:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i am following: Building a mech tutorial
20-12-31 11:37:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: but when i type soot it returns: Building a mech tutorial
20-12-31 11:38:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I think mech should has a default location?!
20-12-31 11:39:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: =$
20-12-31 11:41:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: tried to get: mech
20-12-31 11:42:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: not helped!
20-12-31 13:15:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hey aboim2, you still need help?
20-12-31 13:16:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Please send me a pastebin or similar site with your code in it so I can see what's going on.
20-12-31 13:47:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> in web\template_overrides\website\channel_detail.html, I want to know how to change "view.page_title"
20-12-31 13:48:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> in line 14,  "<h1 class="card-title">{{ view.page_title }} ({{ object }})</h1>"
20-12-31 13:48:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> without changing the html
20-12-31 13:48:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> I don't know how to find where view.page_title is set
20-12-31 14:12:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Β―_(ツ)_/Β―
20-12-31 14:12:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> "<p>{{ entry_text }}</p>" line 28 in help_detail.html
20-12-31 14:12:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> it add the text without html formatting
20-12-31 14:13:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> I don't know html, somebody know what I have to do in order to have the entry formatted ?
20-12-31 14:13:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> "desc test<br /><br />Retour ?" here is what is displayed
20-12-31 14:13:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> here is an example of the issue
20-12-31 14:14:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Vikka|H> https://terazur.online/help/1-informations-et-guides/2-debuter/
20-12-31 14:18:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: hi discord just check here: https://pastebin.pl/view/2bee278a
20-12-31 14:19:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: thnks for your help... ;D
20-12-31 14:19:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What's with the imports that have .objects and ..commands?
20-12-31 14:20:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Is that a shortcut for "this directory" and "the directory above"?
20-12-31 14:20:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: import directory and the above one
20-12-31 14:20:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Gotcha.
20-12-31 14:20:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
20-12-31 14:21:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i am still adding more features to it but for now... X-P
20-12-31 14:26:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, well on line 41, you assign self.location to location.
20-12-31 14:26:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That is incorrect, because self is a reference to the command object that is created when the command is called upon.
20-12-31 14:26:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What you want there is location = caller.location
20-12-31 14:26:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> To get the location of the object that calls the command.
20-12-31 14:27:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The command is a typeclass, so I suppose it lives somewhere, but for all I know it lives in None, which is the void. So if that's true, you'll be setting location = None there, technically.
20-12-31 14:27:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: uau... thanks!! yeah it makes sense!!
20-12-31 14:28:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> This might be why you aren't getting any feedback, because the messages are being sent into the ether. πŸ™‚
20-12-31 14:29:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i am trying... give me a moment
20-12-31 14:29:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, sure. I'll keep reading while you test.
20-12-31 14:30:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Just make sure you change that location t hing in both commands of Shoot and BallsOfFire
20-12-31 14:30:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: nop not yet
20-12-31 14:31:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Not yet what? It doesn't work? Make sure you type "reload" to reload your server in your MUD client after you make a change.
20-12-31 14:31:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And save it too of course.
20-12-31 14:31:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i became the mech through ic and tryied shoot and throw command
20-12-31 14:31:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeap I reloaded it
20-12-31 14:31:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Is the mech in a room?
20-12-31 14:31:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ya i am usin PyCharm as editor
20-12-31 14:31:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If it's floating out in None, that might be an issue.
20-12-31 14:32:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah I guess it is in Limbo the default
20-12-31 14:32:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Limbo is fine, that's a room.
20-12-31 14:32:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You typed out "lounch" instead of "launch" for the balls of fire key on the command.
20-12-31 14:32:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: how can I check it?
20-12-31 14:32:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: tryied look command
20-12-31 14:33:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: nothing new
20-12-31 14:33:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You also misspelled the word Launch in both the command name and the cmdset location.
20-12-31 14:33:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Type ex me
20-12-31 14:33:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> For examine me.
20-12-31 14:33:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If you are IC as the mech, me should refer to the mech, as if it were a character.
20-12-31 14:34:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> When you type the command, does it say that the command doesn't exist or something? If that's the case, then it's generally an issue with the commandset.
20-12-31 14:35:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Also, if you type "help" by itself, you should get a list of command entries.
20-12-31 14:35:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That will let you know if the command is even showing up on the mech properly.
20-12-31 14:36:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah confirmed I am in Limbo
20-12-31 14:37:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: corrected the misspelling
20-12-31 14:37:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
20-12-31 14:37:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, so make sure you reload the server.
20-12-31 14:37:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> After that, type in help and see what results you get.
20-12-31 14:38:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: Command 'shoot' is not available.
20-12-31 14:38:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Check to see if your custom commands are showing up in there.
20-12-31 14:38:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah... guess thats is the problem
20-12-31 14:40:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: if i try launch I am getting a: You don't have any characters yet. See help @charcreate for creating one
20-12-31 14:40:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, sometimes when it doesn't have a command to execute, it tries to guess the next thing you could be typing and that often gives you random results.
20-12-31 14:40:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
20-12-31 14:42:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> @py self.search("mech").cmdset.add("commands.mechcommands.MechCmdSet")
20-12-31 14:42:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Try that to see if you can manually add the mech command set.
20-12-31 14:42:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And then the commands should populate.
20-12-31 14:43:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah it solved it
20-12-31 14:43:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, now remove it by changing the .add to .remove
20-12-31 14:43:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
20-12-31 14:44:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So we know your custom command set is working, but it's not being added to the mech properly.
20-12-31 14:44:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> This means something went wrong on the Mech typeclass you made, where you attempt to add the commandsets in at_object_creation method.
20-12-31 14:44:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Here's what I think.
20-12-31 14:45:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Try removing the .objects and ..commands import portions and instead specify the full path: from typeclasses.objects import Object
20-12-31 14:45:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> and: from commands.mechcommans import MechCmdSet
20-12-31 14:46:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> first of all, the problem is that you don't need to go up in directories like that when you are importing from the BASEGAME directory. The commands directory lives in mygame directory and therefore the import command already knows to look there.
20-12-31 14:47:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I really should have pointed this out before, but the relative pathing you did threw me for a loop.
20-12-31 14:47:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Something I figured out early on in my Evennia career is that it was never worth it to attempt shortcuts with the imports. Just write out the full path relative to your game's base directory.
20-12-31 14:48:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)  yeah I understand
20-12-31 14:48:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I ended up with too many errors if I attempted relative import paths and quickly switched to fully writing it out instead. No errors like that since then. πŸ™‚
20-12-31 14:48:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Now that we fixed your import path, it should be able to find and add the cmdset.
20-12-31 14:49:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: tyied this because when I am typing usually PyCharm gets the folders but it wasnt
20-12-31 14:49:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> In the mech's object creation.
20-12-31 14:49:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If PyCharm is giving you errors and you know the path is proper, ignore Pycharm.
20-12-31 14:49:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
20-12-31 14:49:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ill reload and try
20-12-31 14:50:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Just make sure you destroy and create the mech again.
20-12-31 14:50:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Cause the at_object_creation method is only run when the object is first made.
20-12-31 14:50:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: true
20-12-31 14:50:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> We want a fresh mech to make sure the cmdset added properly.
20-12-31 14:53:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I am mech as #238 and tying to destroy #238
20-12-31 14:53:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: command not available
20-12-31 14:53:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: any shortcut
20-12-31 14:53:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i can try admin site but by code I would be learning
20-12-31 14:54:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: =D
20-12-31 14:56:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> When you puppet, you inherit the permissions of that mech, I think....
20-12-31 14:56:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Umm, try to unpuppet the mech before destroying it.
20-12-31 14:56:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I have developer permissions but I dont have destroy command
20-12-31 14:57:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh, um...
20-12-31 14:57:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i did... strange is it?
20-12-31 14:57:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: tryied chardelete didnt work as well
20-12-31 14:57:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think the thing is that you made the mech have default commandset?
20-12-31 14:58:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> While you are in the mech, type help.
20-12-31 14:58:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> See if you have any of the normal Building commands.
20-12-31 14:58:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> destroy is under Building:
20-12-31 14:58:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> category*
20-12-31 14:58:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: no only examine
20-12-31 14:59:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Anyways, about the importing, you can see here that I just use my full paths when I import. https://i.imgur.com/75ITUDB.png
20-12-31 14:59:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Anyways, about the importing, you can see here that I just use my full paths when I import. https://i.imgur.com/75ITUDB.png
20-12-31 14:59:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Huh, that's interesting that the only building command you got is examine.
20-12-31 15:00:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Use "ex me" and then paste the results into another pastebin for me.
20-12-31 15:00:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: perfect... thanks for the hint... I was trusting to much in PC hints...
20-12-31 15:00:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I want to see what it says.
20-12-31 15:00:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ....too much
20-12-31 15:00:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> IDE hints are useful to a degree, but you have to know when they aren't aware of how Evennia works. πŸ™‚
20-12-31 15:01:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: O:3
20-12-31 15:01:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: '=D
20-12-31 15:01:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> They understand Python, they don't understand Evennia lol.
20-12-31 15:01:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: what do you think? Ill destroy mech in admin site?
20-12-31 15:01:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If you unpuppet it, can't you destroy it from there?
20-12-31 15:02:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> ooc should be the unpuppet command.
20-12-31 15:02:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah I guess... it has a delete red button there...
20-12-31 15:02:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ill try
20-12-31 15:02:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Type: destroy #238 after you unpuppet.
20-12-31 15:02:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah its gone
20-12-31 15:02:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ups...too late... lol
20-12-31 15:02:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, create/drop a new mech.
20-12-31 15:05:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: getting: Command 'create/drop Giant Mech ; mech' is not available. Maybe you meant "charcreate", "ccreate" or "chardelete"?
20-12-31 15:05:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: tried occ, but still the same
20-12-31 15:05:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Are you IC as your account character?
20-12-31 15:06:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think it's possible that you lost your builder commandset somewhere along the way...
20-12-31 15:06:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ill connect again
20-12-31 15:06:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok.
20-12-31 15:08:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> In general, once you go OOC, you aren't even in your account character object. So you need to type: ic <your account name>
20-12-31 15:08:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok I am logged in as developer but ooc
20-12-31 15:08:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I have some sample characters if needed
20-12-31 15:08:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, whatever name you gave your account, that should be the name of your default character.
20-12-31 15:08:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> See if you have builder commands again.
20-12-31 15:09:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If it didn't get fixed, give me a copy/paste of your results after you type: ex me
20-12-31 15:09:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ah one thing I have MULTISESSION_MODE=3 in settings
20-12-31 15:09:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oi, I can't help you there. I tried that for a split sec myself and decided it was too much headache for me to deal with.
20-12-31 15:09:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's all sorts of session handling stuff you need to manage.
20-12-31 15:10:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
20-12-31 15:10:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: no problem ill step it down so
20-12-31 15:10:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: 1 moment
20-12-31 15:10:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> MULTISESSION_MODE = 1 is what I have. It allows me to connect to the same character from multiple clients, but no puppeting and session issues to manage.
20-12-31 15:10:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
20-12-31 15:11:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> 3 is a total free for all and I wouldn't recommend messing with that until you're expertly educated on Evennia.
20-12-31 15:12:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah I see...
20-12-31 15:12:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: back to MULTISESSION_MODE = 1
20-12-31 15:12:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: but now I dont have a character to my account when I login
20-12-31 15:13:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: did it with charcreated
20-12-31 15:13:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ic in it
20-12-31 15:13:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: building is giving me just examine
20-12-31 15:14:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: sorry... ill send you the print screen
20-12-31 15:15:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: of ex self
20-12-31 15:17:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: here it is: https://ibb.co/tPDNPMd
20-12-31 15:21:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, so you are in Limbo, puppeting a character?
20-12-31 15:21:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The character is aboim2?
20-12-31 15:21:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It says you have create as a command.
20-12-31 15:21:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Try typing unquell, just in case.
20-12-31 15:21:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
20-12-31 15:23:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: Already using normal Account permissions  (superuser).
20-12-31 15:23:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So try typing: help create
20-12-31 15:23:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah got it back
20-12-31 15:24:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: create new objects ....
20-12-31 15:24:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: so ill try to make a nes mech?
20-12-31 15:24:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: *new
20-12-31 15:25:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes.
20-12-31 15:25:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
20-12-31 15:26:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: done
20-12-31 15:26:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Honestly, we've been sidetracked for so long and my brain is sloggy from needing sleep that I forgot what we are doing. But we fixed the import of the commandsets in the objects module where you tell the Mech typeclass to add the commandset on object creation, so we need a new mech.
20-12-31 15:27:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Now before you puppet the mech, simply type: ex mech
20-12-31 15:27:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You can see the properties of the mech and you want to make sure that it has the MechCmdSet on it.
20-12-31 15:28:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: sorry to be pressing you ...
20-12-31 15:29:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It's ok, so long as we get this working and can confirm stuff, I'm going to heading to bed afterward.
20-12-31 15:30:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: stored CmdSet: nothing in there.      Merged CmdSet there in no MechCmdSet
20-12-31 15:30:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So if you examine the mech before puppeting it, you should see the commandset on it. You can IC mech to puppet it directly, try out the custom mech commands to make sure they work, then IC directly back to your normal character.
20-12-31 15:30:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ill send to you a PS of ex mech
20-12-31 15:31:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Well, I dunno where to go with troubleshooting on this one. Personally, I've never actually messed with commandsets and adding them and merging them. Hopefully you fixed the import issues as I mentioned and you reloaded the server...
20-12-31 15:31:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, sure.
20-12-31 15:31:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: https://ibb.co/HYCWWxH
20-12-31 15:32:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, neither of the commandsets were added properly.
20-12-31 15:32:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok ...
20-12-31 15:36:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You gotta show me what your imports look like now.
20-12-31 15:37:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> In the mygame.typeclasses.mech module.
20-12-31 15:37:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: from typeclasses.objects import Objectfrom commands.mechcommands import MechCmdSetfrom evennia import default_cmds
20-12-31 15:37:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Just give me a new paste of the imports and the Mech object typeclass again, so I can confirm that is all correct.
20-12-31 15:37:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: sorry...
20-12-31 15:37:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: from typeclasses.objects import Object
20-12-31 15:37:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That works too I guess.
20-12-31 15:38:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: from commands.mechcommands import MechCmdSet
20-12-31 15:38:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: from evennia import default_cmds
20-12-31 15:38:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok 1 sec
20-12-31 15:39:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: here: https://ibb.co/xqCsfrX
20-12-31 15:41:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ok, I think that somewhere along the line, your module is not finding commands.mechcommands or typeclasses.objects
20-12-31 15:42:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The red squigglies means that they aren't importing properly.
20-12-31 15:42:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: aaaahh...ok
20-12-31 15:43:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Someone else is going to have to help you decipher this if they are around. My brain is way too mushy right now to get to the bottom of it. I hope you have Evennia installed properly where you have "mud" directory and then below that should be 3 folders "evennia", "virtual environment", and "mygame".
20-12-31 15:43:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And that you are making all of your changes in "mygame".
20-12-31 15:44:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah thats all fine
20-12-31 15:44:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Tracking down why these imports aren't working, without actually having direct access to your project, is like working blindfolded with one hand tied behind my back.
20-12-31 15:44:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's so many things that it could possibly be.
20-12-31 15:44:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: dont worry my friend: now Ill figure it from here
20-12-31 15:44:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: your help was precious
20-12-31 15:45:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I hope so, good luck with it. If all else fails, you can always zip up your project and send it on in for us to evaluate directly.
20-12-31 15:45:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: go rest mate
20-12-31 15:45:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: sure
20-12-31 15:45:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: thanks for your effort
20-12-31 15:45:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y) (y) (y)
20-12-31 15:45:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Someone else might have a eureka moment otherwise, but it's still early in the day and I guess nobody else is around to help. NP, hope you get it all working and keep enjoying some tinkering around.
20-12-31 15:46:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> At the least, you can always abandon this part for now and go try more tutorials, maybe it'll give you insight on something to help you fix this problem too.
20-12-31 15:46:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: XD  yeah man. Keep safe and take care
20-12-31 15:46:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
20-12-31 15:46:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Like I said, we tried to manually add your Mech commandset manually with the py command, so we know it works. It's just not adding it in the at_object_creation and it seems to be an import issue.
20-12-31 15:46:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> goes to sleep
20-12-31 15:47:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: fine.... ill digg in the import statement
20-12-31 15:47:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: by for now
20-12-31 15:47:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: *bye
20-12-31 16:06:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <eartsar|H> Unrelated question from my database migration woes (I'll pick that up another time).  Anyone here familiar with GMCP commands? Specifically for Mudlet delivery? For some reason, I can't send a proper directive, and I'm wondering if it's because Mudlet expects the command Client.GUI (with json payload) and Evennia auto-formats the command to Client.Gui (since str.capitalize() doesn't respect fully-upper-case strings).
20-12-31 16:21:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> RAWR!
20-12-31 16:27:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alkaid|H> most of my gmcp experience is pretty ancient, but i think you're right on the money in that mudlet expects Client.GUI with that casing
20-12-31 16:40:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Wow.  I see Wealth of Nations got dropped in channel while I was sleeping.  πŸ˜‰
20-12-31 16:40:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Wasn't expecting that.
20-12-31 16:49:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <eartsar|H> Hmm. This definitely seems to be the case. Changing evennia locally to just take the formatting as given, and not capitalize() makes it work properly.  Is there a proper way to hook into EVENNIA_TO_GMCP in telnet_oob.py so that I can force the proper formatting that Mudlet expects?
20-12-31 17:02:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> If Evennia's code is incorrect, I recommend a pull request with the fixes
20-12-31 17:14:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <eartsar|H> Yeah, just looking to work around it in the interim, so that work on Mudlet GUI stuff can continue. I imagine I'd likely not get a PR quite right the first time, and Griatch is on vacation, too... I imagine that updating upstream will take a while and be a blocker for some time.
20-12-31 17:42:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alkaid|H> this isn't proper per se but you could just monkey patch it by defining a version of encode_gmcp that either doesn't use capitalize() or otherwise solves the problem and load that over the original method wherever you import TelnetOOB.
20-12-31 17:43:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alkaid|H> if that's feasible with your setup, it has the advantage of being a one-line removal if/when the PR changes things
20-12-31 18:00:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> I still recommend making a branch with the fix and doing a PR - you can always rebase it too if it's a tiny fix
20-12-31 18:13:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> anyhoo
20-12-31 18:13:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> I need to power up with some food then it's code time.
20-12-31 19:21:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> whew. h'okay, working on the Channel commands...
20-12-31 23:47:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issues]|H eartsar opened|H issue #2300|H in evennia|H: [BUG] TelnetOOB encode_gmcp() cmdname formatting incompatible with Mudlet's Client.GUI command|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2300|H>)
21-01-01 02:36:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> mgwagh
21-01-01 04:03:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Happy new years folks -- may your game be launchable and maintainable in 2021.  πŸ˜‰
21-01-01 04:17:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Happy New Year to you also!
21-01-01 06:25:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> One or the other, baybeeee
21-01-01 06:25:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Happy new year, nerds. Keep tinkering.
21-01-01 10:16:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2300|H ([BUG] TelnetOOB encode_gmcp() cmdname formatting incompatibl[34 more]|H) in evennia|H: AFAIK, capitalized is the most commonly used form for GMCP m[401 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2300#issuecomment-753297030|H>)
21-01-01 10:23:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2266|H (Evennia Generic Plug-in System) in evennia|H: @volundmush Any progress on this? (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2266#issuecomment-753297705|H>)
21-01-01 10:24:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2298|H ([BUG] SessionHandler - TypeError, 'set' object is not subscr[...]|H) in evennia|H: Sounds like a good fix to add. (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2298#issuecomment-753297848|H>)
21-01-01 10:29:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2290|H ([BUG] MuxCommand - lhslist/rhslist not consistently typed) in evennia|H: I can see the argument for lists. I don't recall if there is[259 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2290#issuecomment-753298364|H>)
21-01-01 10:55:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I still have an IRC client! somewhat
21-01-01 10:55:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi everyone! and happy new year!
21-01-01 12:11:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ahoi Vincent.
21-01-01 12:16:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Kovitikus :) . How are things?
21-01-01 12:17:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Been working on refactoring my project to push everything I can into handlers. Handlers, handlers, MOAR HANDLERS!
21-01-01 12:17:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm addicted to fstrings, handlers, and dictionaries.
21-01-01 12:18:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> A dictionary of fstrings in a handler? The trifecta!
21-01-01 12:30:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: lol, I love f-strings too. And handlers
21-01-01 12:39:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [devblog|H] 'Happy new years 2021! Evennia things to come this year' <https://evennia.blogspot.com/2021/01/happy-new-years-2021-evennia-things-to.html|H>
21-01-01 12:52:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Woot woot, a new blog post.
21-01-01 12:55:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The most important change will be that the timer will required to be explicitly started (instead of always starting on script-creation).
21-01-01 12:55:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think this sentence is missing a 'be' at the very least.
21-01-01 12:55:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> the timer will be required to be explicitly started?
21-01-01 12:59:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Once we do, it will simplify the install instructions dramatically for those not interested in contributing to Evennia proper.
21-01-01 12:59:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I added a comma between do and it, cause smashed together the flow was a bit confusing.
21-01-01 13:00:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> thanks to all of you that contributed to Evennia with code or by reporting issues or coming with feedback.
21-01-01 13:00:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> coming up with feedback*?
21-01-01 13:01:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> a big thanks to all of you taking part in community discussions, both those asking questions and those helping to answer them tirelessly
21-01-01 13:02:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think the current "you" in the questions and answers section could be changed to those. Either that or "those of you", but those is shorter.
21-01-01 13:02:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> In any case, good blog. That's all the feedback I have on the reading of it.
21-01-01 13:03:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatch*.
21-01-01 13:03:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If you are even in chat, I dunno if my suggestions are being sent into the void. πŸ˜›
21-01-01 13:11:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issues]|H kovitikus opened|H issue #2301|H in evennia|H: [Documentation] How to get and give help.|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2301|H>)
21-01-01 13:51:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: hello everyone
21-01-01 13:51:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hello, how'd the troubleshooting go?
21-01-01 13:51:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: lol
21-01-01 13:51:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: HI
21-01-01 13:52:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: no sucess until now
21-01-01 13:52:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> GG.
21-01-01 13:52:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I am studying it but I too new... lol
21-01-01 13:52:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: have you rested?
21-01-01 13:52:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> At least 8 hours, yes.
21-01-01 13:52:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: :]
21-01-01 13:53:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: all right... have a nice 2021... (y)
21-01-01 13:53:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes, see you in a year. πŸ™‚
21-01-01 13:54:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm going into hibernation until 2022.
21-01-01 13:54:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: well on the code... I tryied to add the full path of cmdset but no sucess
21-01-01 13:54:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: lol
21-01-01 13:54:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I want to lear evennia first lol
21-01-01 13:54:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: *learn
21-01-01 14:06:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: this coffee machine is good, but it makes very short coffee. I've gotten used to longer ones, so I usually press the button for a coffee three times :P but somehow, I manage to get the count wrong and was about to press it even more after reading the IRC history... fortunately I realized in time my cup was already full
21-01-01 14:07:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Short and long, you mean lite and dark coffee?
21-01-01 14:08:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> As in potency?
21-01-01 14:08:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Or you just mean it doesn't fill up the cup that much?
21-01-01 14:09:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Heh, I'm assuming by the ending of your story that you mean short and long is regarding how long the machine spits out coffee into the cup.
21-01-01 14:16:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: right! I was referring to the size of the cup actually. We call it "short" when it's a small cup. Most people in France drink coffee very short / strong without much water
21-01-01 14:17:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but after living 3 years in the US I do use a very large cup for coffee :)
21-01-01 14:17:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Here we call that an um....
21-01-01 14:17:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh jeez. I'm not a barista.
21-01-01 14:18:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: cmdset are loaded from commands right?
21-01-01 14:18:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Whatever they call it when you ask for a "shot of strong coffee".
21-01-01 14:18:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> No what, commandsets load the commands.
21-01-01 14:18:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah
21-01-01 14:18:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: haha, I ask for a "black coffee" now. I don't care how much water they put in it, just no sugar or cream if you please
21-01-01 14:19:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: is there any dif btw default_cmdset and cmset?
21-01-01 14:19:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hu, it's the other way about command sets if I'm not mistaken: they hold commands. Commands don't load/contain command sets
21-01-01 14:19:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: though a command can start a command set yes, but then this command set has to add commands in itself :D
21-01-01 14:20:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that's what happens in EvMenu if I'm not mistaken
21-01-01 14:20:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: thats right
21-01-01 14:20:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> default_cmdset I think is what remains when all other commandsets have been merged.
21-01-01 14:20:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It's like the big daddy commandset that you always default to.
21-01-01 14:20:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i am asking because i am gettinga error on import
21-01-01 14:20:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
21-01-01 14:20:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: or it's the command set with default commands, like look and `@py`
21-01-01 14:21:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I dunno, you can specify to add.default_cmdset
21-01-01 14:22:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I have been away from Evennia in a long time, so I'm not sure how that works anymore. I believe you can add a CmdSet in your game (or more than one, really). I personally placed my CmdSet andy my commands in the same file (all commands linked to a CmdSet) but that's definitely not required
21-01-01 14:22:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: I'm not sure either :S it has been too long
21-01-01 14:24:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: DiscordBot I dunno how but I managed to load MechCmdSet
21-01-01 14:24:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: it is there when I ex self
21-01-01 14:24:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm coding my own game engine now so I'm a bit confused at times
21-01-01 14:24:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I do remember having a PhoneCmdSet I could add. This PhoneCmdSet contained commands to use a phone and was activated/deactivated by another command
21-01-01 14:25:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah I thing it is a good policy to merge Commands and Command Sets in the same file.... keep thing more tidy
21-01-01 14:28:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: darn it, my frozen Python script, which I froze on Linux (x64) doesn't work on my Rpi (arm). Of course not, I'll need to freeze it again. Well, at least, having Windows + wsl + Raspberrypi, I can test and freeze a lot of builds
21-01-01 14:51:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i am getting two matches for create a mech: create mech and create, how do i narrow it down to just mech
21-01-01 14:52:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: create is a default command. You can remove it
21-01-01 14:52:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: or you could rename create mesh
21-01-01 14:52:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: into createmesh (without the space)
21-01-01 14:52:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: actually I wonder if this solution works
21-01-01 14:53:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: okan time to go for a walk. Considering the weather ouside, I might not be long
21-01-01 15:21:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it's pretty cold, but it wasn't so bad
21-01-01 15:59:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok thanks ill try
21-01-01 16:55:53: [Public] |ctmpuser|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-01 16:56:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Windows Defender is blocking / deleting my own compiled files. No way, what's that for?
21-01-01 17:01:32: [Public] |ctmpuser|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-01 17:38:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I dont know how to implement the creation of a new object without calling the default create
21-01-01 17:39:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I read about merging cmdsets but it is an advanced topic I guess
21-01-01 17:42:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: maybe if I use the flag duplicates in one of the cmdset?!
21-01-01 17:43:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ... I meant duplicates=None!
21-01-01 17:44:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: It is replying by duplicationg every command ex, help, look... any command
21-01-01 18:07:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H eartsar commented on issue #2300|H ([BUG] TelnetOOB encode_gmcp() cmdname formatting incompatibl[34 more]|H) in evennia|H: > AFAIK, capitalized is the most commonly used form for GMCP[704 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2300#issuecomment-753358687|H>)
21-01-01 18:22:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H strikaco commented on issue #2290|H ([BUG] MuxCommand - lhslist/rhslist not consistently typed) in evennia|H: Hmm. The intent behind the lhs/rhs thing makes more sense to[130 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2290#issuecomment-753360637|H>)
21-01-01 18:23:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: swoped object to DefaultObject but getting a double match for any work that I input
21-01-01 18:23:40: [Public] |cfees|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-01 18:25:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: aboim2: have you tried to follow a tutorial? creating a CmdSet is (usually) not too bad, since it's a common task in Evennia. I think there's a vehicle tutorial on that topic, if you want
21-01-01 18:25:51: [Public] |cfees|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-01 18:30:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah.. I was following the mech tutorial
21-01-01 18:31:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: and it is pretty much working only this issue
21-01-01 18:32:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I think Ill put this one in pause I start that vehicle one
21-01-01 18:33:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: in true.. I was following it in parallel but I think Ill start it over from the beginig
21-01-01 18:34:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho, the mech one. I don't know this one
21-01-01 18:34:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: do you mean the "create mesh" command will fail?
21-01-01 18:34:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: no no
21-01-01 18:34:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I was following the creat mech
21-01-01 18:34:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: *create
21-01-01 18:35:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if I remember correctly the vehicle tutorial actually places a command set on an object (a room, perhaps)? It might not be what you want to achieve
21-01-01 18:35:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho ok
21-01-01 18:36:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: it is quite working but when I call any command because the object is deriving from default object it is calling any command two times
21-01-01 18:36:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: the vheicle tut is about create a train
21-01-01 18:36:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: but yeah... is a way out to this even situation
21-01-01 18:36:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that's definitely odd
21-01-01 18:36:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I am not knowing to go throught
21-01-01 18:37:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: Ill start it over with vehicle tut
21-01-01 18:37:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I don't know this tutorial, but it might be worth point it out to griatch. It's possible there's an issue
21-01-01 18:37:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: https://evennia.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Building-a-mech-tutorial.html
21-01-01 18:46:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the fact that all commands are repeated twice... does it happen when you @ic the mech? or when you @ic your character?
21-01-01 18:47:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ha, I see the culprit, but I don't know why it starts acting up now, that's definitely not normal
21-01-01 18:47:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: when i am in ic mech
21-01-01 18:48:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I deleted it I start the train tut
21-01-01 18:48:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: no I don't know. This is odd
21-01-01 18:48:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: okay!
21-01-01 18:48:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: good luck on the train :)
21-01-01 18:49:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
21-01-01 18:50:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H vadi2 commented on issue #2300|H ([BUG] TelnetOOB encode_gmcp() cmdname formatting incompatibl[34 more]|H) in evennia|H: We'll fix it in the next update of Mudlet :+1: I recommend s[66 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2300#issuecomment-753366646|H>)
21-01-01 18:55:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho, there's some advertisement on readthedocs. Is that new? Perhaps I hadn't even noticed
21-01-01 18:56:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Guest10037@#evennia: there's a new docs site vincent-lg
21-01-01 18:57:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Guest10037@#evennia: https://www.evennia.com/docs/latest/index.html
21-01-01 19:40:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> I decided to browse @Tehom's Arx game to see what a successful game looks like.  I noticed what appears to be some kind of 'Events' system which sounds like it is similar to the 'SceneSys' system produced for traditional MUs to support asynchronous MU gameplay.  Having not played on a MUSH for so long, I'm not super familiar w/ SceneSys but its something I'm interested in --  that event code isn't part of the base Evennia package is it?
21-01-01 19:40:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: Is it unique to Arx?
21-01-01 19:43:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tehom|H> That's custom to Arx, though I think most MU* games have some variation of that idea. I've never heard of SceneSys but async events are built into the Ares framework, for example
21-01-01 19:46:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho good, I never was too found of readthedocs :D
21-01-01 19:48:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Yes, as I've been researching it, it seems that "Volund's SceneSys" is an early MU implementation of the concept.  Ares, specifically, was brought up as a modern implementation of it -- not super inclined to learn Ruby, though.  How portable is the Arx implementation of it?  Is it buried in the open-source branch you have posted?
21-01-01 19:51:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Actually the first version of that was written by Mercurio IIRC. Volund just did his own version of it
21-01-01 19:51:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> https://github.com/HarryCordewener/SceneSys
21-01-01 19:53:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Ahhh, okay -- good call out, Darren, good for the original creator to get credit.  πŸ™‚
21-01-01 19:57:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Seems like the core of the capability is...  Some central system that is able to allow players to subscribe to scene-appropriate prose/command, manage that subscription, participate in the subscription asynchronously, persist the produced data and produce it in some appropriate format.  With some kind of scheduling/calendar dimension around it...
21-01-01 19:58:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> I feel like that would make a nice core capability in Evennia.  If I wrote even a hair's width better code than the absolute hackiest, trashiest, street-clear-away-from-anything-resembling-public-release-code, I'd take a crack at contributing.  πŸ™‚
21-01-01 19:59:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tehom|H> I think the basics of it are pretty portable, though I definitely wouldn't say my implementation is very good. I think Ares probably has the best overall implementation right now, though it leverages Ember.js for the front-end and is reliant on using a redis cache
21-01-01 20:00:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's mostly useful for async RP. temprooms work just as well if async rp is not desired
21-01-01 20:00:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Yes -- specifically supporting Asynch RP seems desirable.
21-01-01 20:00:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tehom|H> My Event system is used for synchronous RP, while I made a separate model called Flashbacks for async. Ares doesn't make the distinction, and just has everything as async with different prefences set for pacing, afaik
21-01-01 20:01:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tehom|H> I could be off on that, that's just my second-hand understanding
21-01-01 20:02:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> async RP simply means that rather than RPing face to face in real-time, the participants are popping in whenever, posing or saying their lines. It's rather like forum RP, or a much quicker pbem
21-01-01 20:03:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Right.  Exactly.  Sort of a fusion of classic Play-by-Post style RP, and the traditionally entirely synchronous RP of a MUSH.
21-01-01 20:03:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Allowing both types of players to coexist.  And flip between modes, as availability presents itself.
21-01-01 20:03:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Reason: that sounds interesting. What do you mean by async events? I'm in the business of creating games and I'm not even sure what it is :(
21-01-01 20:04:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> @vincent-lg -- Just imagine a Play-by-Post pen-and-table RPG occurring in a MUSH vs. a Forum / Discord.
21-01-01 20:06:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: to handle async interaction then?
21-01-01 20:06:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: in what way? I read your discussion about async RP, and that does sound fun, but it's a bit foreign to me. How does it work?
21-01-01 20:08:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> @vincent-lg -- To handle async interaction, yes.  So, for example, a lot of traditional MUSH play is live at the keys, players in a room, storytelling.  Much like a live table-top game would unfold, but obviously at the speed of text vs. the speed of voice.  But that isn't always viable, and so there's a kind of separate style of table-top gameplay that is a lot like a MUSH but managed asynchronously in forums.  Often called PBP
21-01-01 20:08:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: (Play-by-Post).  Players log into the forum, make a post, entirely based on their availability.  Unlike a MUSH, where a scene unfolds in an evening, a PBP scene could unfold over a day, or a week, or a month.
21-01-01 20:09:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho I see
21-01-01 20:09:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> My understanding (disclaimer again:  I haven't actively played on a MUSH in over a decade.  My instincts still need calibration here) is that the SceneSys system brings the option for asynchronous into the MUSH by allowing a player to have a character in the MUSH game, and participate in synchronous RP when available, but also opt into asynchronous scenes -- or, in @Tehom 's game's case, Flashbacks.
21-01-01 20:10:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: how do you keep players engaged over such a long time?
21-01-01 20:10:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: for someone who has built a MUSH it does sound challenging
21-01-01 20:10:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I see
21-01-01 20:10:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: sounds fascinating
21-01-01 20:11:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Well.  Keeping players engaged is often a result of the stuff they're doing being interesting.  So, in my case I'm building a MUSH based on the latest Cyberpunk RED rules.  So an asynchronous scene in that context could be doing a job run by a GM.  It's interesting because the game system makes it interesting.  But two players that just want to RP out some character development could likewise just fire up a scene on their own and RP back
21-01-01 20:11:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: and forth as they're available.
21-01-01 20:13:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I see. I'm actually putting the basis for such a system too, but I wasn't thinking in terms of async VS synchronous events
21-01-01 20:14:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Cyberpunk RED?  πŸ™‚
21-01-01 20:14:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Or just a live RP MUSH?  πŸ™‚
21-01-01 20:15:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: lol, not cyberpunk
21-01-01 20:15:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but not so far actually
21-01-01 20:16:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: a kind of modern-day game, just slightly pushed in a hypothetic future. But very slightly. Mostly things we use on a daily basis, so I'm having fun coding cars and smarptphones :P
21-01-01 20:16:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Hehe.  Cool.  πŸ™‚
21-01-01 20:17:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> There are some problems with async RP. For example, handling the passage of time
21-01-01 20:17:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: even in synchronous events the time can be tricky to handle. Voluntary suspension of disbelief
21-01-01 20:18:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but in async I guess the problem gets even worse
21-01-01 20:18:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: what file system is used by WSL
21-01-01 20:18:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: (sorry, that was for Google)
21-01-01 20:20:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I think it depends on whether you're talking about WSL1 or WSL2
21-01-01 20:20:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I ignore it and stick to Cyngin πŸ˜‰
21-01-01 20:20:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: 2, in my case. And my question, Google says, is pretty stupid :D
21-01-01 20:20:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> err Cygwin
21-01-01 20:21:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I really don't get it. I'm running Ubuntu in WSL, obviously it's not running an NTFS partition, and yet, what else could it possibly be? Windows didn't create an additional partition on my disk I suppose
21-01-01 20:21:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I actually have Cygwin, and have used it for a long time
21-01-01 20:21:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's a virtual hard drive
21-01-01 20:22:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but recently I was encouraged to try WSL. Was more difficult to get than expected, but I must admit I'm pretty impressed with the result
21-01-01 20:22:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> https://adamtheautomator.com/windows-subsystem-for-linux/#The_WSL2_Filesystem
21-01-01 20:22:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I can now freeze my code for Linux and Windows, can run GCC and apt. That's not nothing :)
21-01-01 20:22:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ha, thanks
21-01-01 20:23:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Cygwin is just so much better, and M$ idn'
21-01-01 20:24:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah but getting gcc to run with Cygwin
21-01-01 20:24:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hu, actually I've never tried :D
21-01-01 20:24:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: usually I rely on a Windows compiler on Windows (which is kind of normal I guess)
21-01-01 20:26:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm slowly moving toward Linux (still no-X though).
21-01-01 20:38:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Linux is my daily driver
21-01-01 20:38:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I keep Windows around to tinker with and to run the occasional game that won't work well with WINE
21-01-01 20:39:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I've also been using some of the BSD UNIX variants lately. GhostBSD mostly.
21-01-01 20:52:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the name does sound cheerful
21-01-01 20:52:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I wonder if my frozen Python script does work on Linux
21-01-01 20:53:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: all I know is, it doesn't run on my Raspberry PI, but as my current processor and the Raspberry pi are pretty different, I guess it doesn't prove anything
21-01-01 20:55:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: unable to scroll in the console: I've survived 10 years with 30 lines and I'm now thinking, really, it's too small
21-01-01 20:56:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: especially when you code with rust since error messages can be extremely extensive. So I usually have to do a cargo build | more, which is acceptable, except | more won't capture the standard error. So I end up doing something like cargo build > err 2>&1 and then review err, which is extremely long to type. But I've just reviewed the keyboard shortcuts in Windows and have tested, scrolling just doesn't work for me :(
21-01-01 21:49:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> for some reason page up/down doesn't work out of the box in windows terminal
21-01-01 21:49:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> you have to bind the key
21-01-01 21:50:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> you could try another emulator perhaps
21-01-01 21:50:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> conemu maybe
21-01-01 21:51:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> I've only used Cygwin when I have to but I've been quite happy with the Mingw64 package when I need gcc
21-01-01 21:51:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> on Windows
21-01-01 21:58:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ergodicbreak: with a screen reader, other emulators are often inaccessible
21-01-01 22:00:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ergodicbreak: you could, it seems, use shift + PageUp / Down. Doesn't work for me but it probably works for others. Alternatively you could select edit -> scroll (alt + space, e, l, yes that's correct and easy to remember) and then you can use page up and down to scroll. Again, it seems. I can't check, my screen reader stops responding whenever I scroll back. That's probably something no one thought about testing :D
21-01-01 22:00:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'll place a bug, I'm just going to test, it's quite possible the problem isn't my screen reader after all :D
21-01-01 22:12:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: time to go! good night everyone!
21-01-01 22:18:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Good night!
21-01-02 02:13:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Wish me brains, its time for me to... learn how to work with goldenlayout.
21-01-02 06:20:17: [Public] |ctest567|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-02 06:20:32: [Public] test567: hello!
21-01-02 06:22:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Howdy test!
21-01-02 06:28:14: [Public] |ctest567|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-02 10:17:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Evennia!
21-01-02 10:41:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: nn
21-01-02 11:01:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: how is it going aboim2?
21-01-02 11:02:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: after a bit of frustration with TT++ I found BlightMUD. A bit harder to get in shape, but it seems so... easy in comparison. It seems to handle encoding just fine too, though I'd have to run more tests to be sure
21-01-02 11:04:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: hi vicent!! I dont really rembember where I left off... but now it is working as I expected
21-01-02 11:04:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I create a mech ( kind of catapult ) and I can fire it
21-01-02 11:05:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: the thing is I only can fire it if I possess it or in other worths if the player is IN the mech
21-01-02 11:05:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
21-01-02 11:06:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: now I am learning more aboout db searches
21-01-02 11:12:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, that was the goal of the tutorial, to show you how to ic into an object
21-01-02 11:13:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if you want to hide the fire commands to all characters you probably don't need a CmdSet there.
21-01-02 11:14:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I had a vehicle system in my game, you went into them through the enter command (instead of @ic) and that gave you additional commands (like drive). But I didn't really like it (and I changed it) because then characters couldn't run help drive unless they were in their vehicle
21-01-02 11:14:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: so I ended up adding a normal command and placing an additional check in the func method :D
21-01-02 11:16:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok, but if you check if the character is inside dont it goes to the same?
21-01-02 11:16:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: =$
21-01-02 11:24:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: aboim2: except you can run help drive when outside
21-01-02 11:25:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you don't have to be in your car to read help drive, and that's not the best moment to read the help file, so I referred something more universal
21-01-02 11:25:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: better to say, "there's no wheel here" rather than say "unknown comman: drive". In my opinion :)
21-01-02 11:28:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok I think I got it... it is a matter of explicit the answer
21-01-02 11:29:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: same result but with a useful message
21-01-02 11:33:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: correct
21-01-02 11:33:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm really annoying when it comes to gameplay and I think players can easily be turned down by the interface, if it's not carefully planned
21-01-02 11:34:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and reading the help file at a bar rather than having to do it in your car (the help file wasn't too short either, about 5 pages of text) is definitely easier
21-01-02 11:39:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: lol
21-01-02 11:39:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: yeah youre right and makes sense after all
21-01-02 11:41:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: there are ways to do that with CmdSet though, it's just... it didn't seem worth it at the time
21-01-02 11:44:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I passed to the weather room tut
21-01-02 11:45:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: can you clear a cloud doubt in my mind? :]
21-01-02 11:46:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: so... I made this room! When I create a new room with this name it will be of course a weatherroom
21-01-02 11:46:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: but if create other room it doent inherit from weatherroom wright?
21-01-02 11:48:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: and create a new room I should use @dig command instead create wright?
21-01-02 11:50:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I chabged the ticked time to 1 mnt and dig a new WeatherRoom and I am wainting for a change
21-01-02 11:50:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: reload the server and tel myself as superuser to this room
21-01-02 11:52:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: but cant see any change... I missing something
21-01-02 12:01:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I don't remember whether the wearher room tutorial told you to change the default room object
21-01-02 12:01:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if so you probably don't have anything to do, and you can use @dig or @tun
21-01-02 12:05:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: i see
21-01-02 12:05:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
21-01-02 12:05:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'll be back in a few, time to eat
21-01-02 12:05:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: (y)
21-01-02 12:16:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: aboim2: you might want to examine your room to see if its typeclass is indeed the weather room
21-01-02 12:16:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: `@ex here
21-01-02 12:20:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ok
21-01-02 12:21:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: not... it is only Room typeclass
21-01-02 12:21:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: location None
21-01-02 12:22:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: what I am missing is how to link weather room with the Room system I guess
21-01-02 12:54:43: [Public] |cParhelion|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-02 13:02:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: do you know what is the most  probably cause for a cmdset is loafed but not a command in it?
21-01-02 13:02:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: because I can see the cmdSet but not the command in it
21-01-02 13:03:49: [Public] |cParhelion|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-02 14:20:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: back I am
21-01-02 14:21:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: aboim2: hm, perhapas a syntax error in your command? have you chedked the log files? they might contain some information
21-01-02 15:34:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: hi
21-01-02 15:34:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I was overdoing what is done...=$
21-01-02 15:34:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: =$
21-01-02 15:35:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I was defining character in commands not in typeclasses file
21-01-02 15:35:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: now is all cool
21-01-02 15:50:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: aboim2: what do you mean? Creating characters with the @create command? That's what it's here for though
21-01-02 16:38:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I have a character.py in my typeclasses thats defining my skeleton for new characters
21-01-02 16:39:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: I was wrong trying to implement this base estructure in the command file
21-01-02 16:48:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: aboim2@#evennia: ill be back I have to to somthing....
21-01-02 17:24:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [fork]|H pruuk forked evennia|H <https://github.com/pruuk/evennia|H>
21-01-02 18:45:41: [Public] |cgedd|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-02 18:48:07: [Public] |cgedd|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-02 18:56:37: [Public] |cGuest1234|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-02 18:59:42: [Public] |cGuest1234|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-02 19:22:26: [Public] |cvain|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-02 19:24:45: [Public] |cvain|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-02 23:16:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> So.  Items, Objects, and Inventories -- are you all using the built in inventory system?  Or creating something else?
21-01-02 23:19:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I've modified the appearance a bit but other than that, mine is stock.
21-01-02 23:22:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Hrm.  So, on a MUSH, characters won't ICly have every since item they own on their person in a given scene, even if it's safest for them to keep them all close to their person.  How to manage that...
21-01-02 23:24:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I dunno. Maybe add a 'carried' tag?
21-01-02 23:25:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Most MUSHes don't use normal objects for anything anyway
21-01-02 23:35:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Yeah.  The exception I'm familiar w/ is primarily weapons/ammo.
21-01-02 23:35:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> *armor
21-01-02 23:36:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> A +wear/carry command/flag is probably adequate for that, though.  πŸ™‚
21-01-02 23:42:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Yep
21-01-03 00:08:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> @Reason https://github.com/kovitikus/hecate/blob/master/commands/command.py#L166 https://youtu.be/mzoZOc-sQxU
21-01-03 00:08:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm currently porting it all over to an InventoryHandler right now, and there will be some major refactoring of the structure, but the basic idea is there.
21-01-03 00:16:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I'm using the stock inventory but changing a bunch of stuff about it, like someone can only carry things in either hand or in their teeth
21-01-03 00:16:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I'm curious about what sort of combat and consent systems you all are using
21-01-03 00:18:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> So far I have coded in this functionality that it takes either consent or a winning dice roll to get within different degrees of closeness to someone, but it's very clunky and non-smooth
21-01-03 00:18:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> The thing is that those degrees of closeness are relevant for what sorts of attacks might be done
21-01-03 00:19:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I was hoping to build a more twitch-like system
21-01-03 00:19:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> But again, it's very clunky, so I need to strip it all out and remake it in a way.
21-01-03 00:21:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Just not sure exactly how to fix it so it'll be smooth...
21-01-03 00:45:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <MagnumOpus|H> I'm building a pretty in-depth Inventory/Clothing system. Clothing items have specific slots. Items can layer over and cover other items. Wear styles.
21-01-03 00:46:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <MagnumOpus|H> Some similar features to in the contribs but a different implementation.
21-01-03 00:48:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Wearing 16 pants.
21-01-03 00:48:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> πŸ™ƒ
21-01-03 00:52:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> was just watching that inventory coding Kovitikus! That is some awesome in depth stuff
21-01-03 00:52:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Sweet. Finishing up dinner but I will check that out soon. πŸ‘
21-01-03 02:53:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Debugging is the most fun part of developing complex systems.
21-01-03 02:53:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> ... said no one, ever >.<
21-01-03 02:54:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Gnome|H> I was about to ask if you were being sarcastic lol
21-01-03 03:00:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I'm sitting here watching screenfuls of numbers scroll by, trying to figure out where exactly my power system is failing https://imgur.com/a/9dXYOei
21-01-03 03:03:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Aha
21-01-03 03:30:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> #facts
21-01-03 06:42:48: [Public] |cKeristaya|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-03 06:46:10: [Public] |cKeristaya|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-03 07:17:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Is there a way I can stop it from doing this when I have supposedly overloaded the old CmdDrop?
21-01-03 07:17:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/795188958324850698/drop.JPG
21-01-03 08:03:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I dunno, my drop overloaded properly. Are you sure you set the key to "drop"?
21-01-03 08:04:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> @alephate https://github.com/kovitikus/hecate/blob/master/commands/command.py#L489
21-01-03 08:05:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Did you name the class the same as the original as well? I think that might matter...
21-01-03 08:06:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> https://github.com/evennia/evennia/blob/master/evennia/commands/default/general.py#L446
21-01-03 08:08:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm pretty sure the class name matters, cause you are specifying that you want to overload something that already exists.
21-01-03 08:09:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Otherwise, it doesn't know to write over the functionality of the original.
21-01-03 09:28:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Evennia!
21-01-03 09:47:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Evennia doesn't live here anymore. You have the wrong number. πŸ˜›
21-01-03 09:48:58: [Public] |ctimmy_turner|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-03 09:52:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Little Timmy Turner!
21-01-03 10:07:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho, that's too bad then
21-01-03 10:07:24: [Public] |ctimmy_turner|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-03 10:07:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if Evennia doesn't live here, I'll just recreate it and make it live here again
21-01-03 10:31:54: [Public] timmy_turner: hehe
21-01-03 10:32:56: [Public] timmy_turner: got my burner phone :^)
21-01-03 10:36:25: [Public] |ctimmy_turner|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-03 10:41:03: [Public] |ctimmy_turner|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-03 16:07:39: [Public] |cWhavourste1988|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-03 16:08:01: [Public] Whavourste1988: what up
21-01-03 16:26:39: [Public] |cWhavourste1988|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-03 19:48:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrf
21-01-03 20:03:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hey guys
21-01-03 20:03:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: this is rather off-topic for Evennia
21-01-03 20:04:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: is anyone familiar with Linux and desktops? I'm blind, have a Rpi (400) without a monitor and I'm trying to install Mate. Well it succeded, but startx complains that there's noscreen (because there'ss no screen). Can't I run X without a physical minotiro?
21-01-03 21:11:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Not sure. the problem is the screen is needed to determine the resolution and color depth. Once upon a time you could over-ride that in a config file, but now it uses autodetection
21-01-03 21:14:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho
21-01-03 21:14:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I'm sure there is a way to do it
21-01-03 21:14:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I saw you could Corg -configure or something like that, and I could specify dpi / depth. Not sure it still works though, it would just write a file
21-01-03 21:15:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well, anyhow. This is most intriguing. If I have to buy a monitor for that, I will, but I'll be disappointed :D
21-01-03 21:17:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> You would almost certainly have to disable UseEDID in your config otherwise it will continue to try to get the resolution and such from a physical monitor
21-01-03 21:17:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: a monitor isn't that cheap either :D
21-01-03 21:17:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well
21-01-03 21:17:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> ie "UseEDID" "false"
21-01-03 21:21:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> What are you using in place of a monitor?
21-01-03 21:22:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> You could always set up VNC and redirect the Pi's display to another computer
21-01-03 21:23:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I use a Braille display
21-01-03 21:24:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: to do everything actually
21-01-03 21:24:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it connects by USB though
21-01-03 21:24:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/raspberry-pi-headless-setup-how-to,6028.html
21-01-03 21:24:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, I thought about that solution, but what I really want to see is not the desktop itself, it's the way Orca (the screen reader on Linux) will handle the accessibility API, keyboard shortcut and such. That probably can't be tested remotely
21-01-03 21:25:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Oh, I see
21-01-03 21:25:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: so many guides out there :D
21-01-03 21:25:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Have you tried looking for a Linux user group in your area?
21-01-03 21:26:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: nope, I'm in the middle of nowhere :D
21-01-03 21:26:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but that would be great. And perhaps I could try to start one, just to contribute
21-01-03 21:26:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: there used to be something like a Linux group in a nearby town (I'd guess you'd call it a town, small though) but with the pandemic of course it doesn't meet anymore. Not in person anyway
21-01-03 21:27:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Oh I didn't think about that
21-01-03 21:27:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well, Mate will have to wait 'til tomorrow, it's getting late!
21-01-03 21:27:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Mate is nice.
21-01-03 21:27:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Darren: well, I'm kind of a "borderline" user you know :D
21-01-03 21:28:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's currently my favorite desktop
21-01-03 21:28:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: always sitting on the very limit and doing things no one ever did, questioning things that have been around for 30-50 years
21-01-03 21:28:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I understand
21-01-03 21:28:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it has very good reviews with orca too
21-01-03 21:28:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I was curious. I've tested Gnome
21-01-03 21:28:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> You're certainly not the only blind Linux user though. there must be others that could help.
21-01-03 21:28:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and although Gnome was the original desktop for Orca I wasn't convinced by it, but was told to test Mate
21-01-03 21:29:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Mate on my RaspberryPI might be pretty slow, but it might be enough to have some idea
21-01-03 21:29:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Mate uses a fork of GTK2 so it basically it is GNOME, with some added features
21-01-03 21:29:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, but most blind users don't rely on Braille (or not on Braille exclusively). There aren't many people using Linux who can't see or hear :D
21-01-03 21:30:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I avoided it for years because I was thinking GTK2 would be awful. But I was wrong.
21-01-03 21:30:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm around to remind others we still exist. Though I don't know really
21-01-03 21:30:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ha, interesting
21-01-03 21:30:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Gnome was accessible, just... well, I thought it would be more ergonomic
21-01-03 21:31:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: isn't there a more recent version of GTK... GTK3?
21-01-03 21:31:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Yes
21-01-03 21:31:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: or perhaps a completely different port
21-01-03 21:31:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> The current version of GTK is 3
21-01-03 21:31:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but still a lot of things in GTK2 I imagine
21-01-03 21:32:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well Orca has no problem with GTK2, 3 and Qt (mostly). That's already a good start
21-01-03 21:32:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'd like to keep chatting but it's getting pretty late and I'm exhausted :D forgive me, I have to go to bed
21-01-03 21:32:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: have ai good night, or day, depending!
21-01-03 21:33:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's almost evening here!
21-01-03 21:33:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Another cold, rainy January day 😦
21-01-03 21:33:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia:  you can say that again :D
21-01-03 21:33:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Good night, Vincent.
21-01-03 21:33:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: thanks!
21-01-03 22:19:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> General question.  Could I install evwnnia onto my pc. Them make a zip of the resulting kush and site, and hand it off to someone else and it still be viable for hosting?
21-01-03 22:22:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> As long as they have Evennia installed properly on the other machine, sure.
21-01-03 22:23:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> Awesome I can do dev work at least.
21-01-03 22:24:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Would probably be easier to use git instead of trying to transfer things by hand every time there's an update
21-01-03 22:27:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> You can work on a remote installation just like you were working on a local one if you use VS Code and install the SSH plugin.
21-01-03 22:33:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> Well it's mostly I have no collaboration.   This is me just making sure I had an option to work on a thing even though odds are skewed hard against me at hostig
21-01-03 22:37:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Ah. Gotcha.
21-01-03 22:51:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> Could just create a docker image.
21-01-03 23:34:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> nodnod
21-01-03 23:35:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> I've been so out of the loop I have no idea what options exist
21-01-04 01:21:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Hey @Kovitikus, following up on my request last night
21-01-04 01:22:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> You said your drop overloaded properly
21-01-04 01:22:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I'm having the same problem with the give command
21-01-04 01:22:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://pastebin.com/sf4SwF2J
21-01-04 01:22:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I have this command. Its name is CmdDrop but its key is "put" and it has aliases for the other functions
21-01-04 01:22:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> "give" and "drop" are included in there
21-01-04 01:23:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I'd really like to keep it all as the same class
21-01-04 01:23:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Just because there's so much related stuff that sorts out neatly that way
21-01-04 01:24:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> so if this overloading doesn't work, I remember a long time ago someone was talking about being able to remove commands from the command set... I would like to do that but am not sure of the best way.
21-01-04 01:29:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Just commented out the super().at_cmdset_creation()
21-01-04 01:29:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I feel like this will lead to long term problems!
21-01-04 02:37:45: [Public] |csean|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-04 03:04:38: [Public] |csean|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-04 05:17:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <VeggieTurtle|H> Hi everyone, I'm new here. Been playing MUDs for over 20 years, and have been researching off/on for the past year and thinking of building my own MUD with my kid(s). I'm an expert/experienced Python programmer, but not terribly creative (that's where my kids come in!). I'm happy that I found Evennia, because Python/Django is definitely my stack/weapon of choice. I joined the Discord because I'm looking forward to learning more
21-01-04 05:17:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: about Evennia, best practices, and common pitfalls to avoid from the community. Thanks!
21-01-04 05:28:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Welcome to the party!
21-01-04 05:36:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Hi VeggieTurtle that sounds awesome πŸ™‚
21-01-04 13:22:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia returns, partially at least
21-01-04 13:23:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @alephate: Overriding Commands does not require the command-class' name to be the same as the default at all. Rather, commands are exclusively replaced by the `key` and/or `aliases`.
21-01-04 13:23:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: So if you want to override the `drop` command, you must at least give it an alias `drop` to have it replace the default one.
21-01-04 13:24:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: This is the fundamental principle of Commands and how Command-sets work. It can be useful to read up on the Command documentation for further info.
21-01-04 13:47:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <NinjaMuffinz|H> I've been looking for a project like this for years, amazing work so far guys/gals πŸ™‚
21-01-04 15:09:07: [Public] |cluigi66|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-04 15:41:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatttch!
21-01-04 15:43:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Welcome to the newcomers. @VeggieTurtle & @NinjaMuffinz
21-01-04 16:15:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii_@#evennia: Welcome from IRC VeggieTurtle and NinjaMuffinz :D
21-01-04 16:16:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii_@#evennia: Also, hi luigi66 if you're still in the demo :D
21-01-04 16:43:48: [Public] |cluigi66|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-04 17:21:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [fork]|H Kerrida forked evennia|H <https://github.com/Kerrida/evennia|H>
21-01-04 17:48:35: [Public] |cplaytest|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-04 17:48:46: [Public] playtest: hello!
21-01-04 17:49:26: [Public] |cplaytest|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-04 17:49:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Missed 'em
21-01-04 17:56:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kerrida|H> Wow, the bot is really on top of us XD
21-01-04 19:44:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I consider the bot below me!
21-01-04 20:47:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> @Griatch thanks! I did put drop and give into the alias list for the command I hoped would overload the old ones. But what happens is that it gives me 1-drop and 2-drop as options when I try to "drop", and one is my new drop and one is the old drop.
21-01-04 20:49:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> It's kind of okay because at this point I have overloaded most of the commands so taking out the super is only causing a few holes that I can fill here and there. Just weird πŸ™‚
21-01-04 20:51:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: If you overload the default command in the default cmdset then there should be only one drop command available to you. If you put it on an object for example, then sure there will be two drops (one on you, one on the object near you)
21-01-04 21:04:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I overloaded it on the default character commandset
21-01-04 21:09:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> maybe it's because I'm using a super user and it's still on some other commandset, so that would explain it
21-01-05 00:06:02: [Public] |cStaric|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-05 00:06:21: [Public] Staric: Hello!
21-01-05 00:14:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kerrida|H> Allo Staric
21-01-05 00:26:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> I missed this by about a day, but just wanted to say:  "Welcome!  Glad you're here, @VeggieTurtle ."  πŸ™‚
21-01-05 01:48:00: [Public] |cStaric|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-05 01:52:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Is this valid JSON? json   "REF":{5},
21-01-05 01:58:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> ...Nnnooooo, it's not. Learning is fun.
21-01-05 02:10:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Griatch: I'm alive! Got distracted for several days by other things. lots of family stuff and then I had to work on some weird DOS programs for a yearly update thing
21-01-05 02:14:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> https://i.imgur.com/2k9V0CV.png
21-01-05 02:14:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> stuff like this
21-01-05 03:55:58: [Public] |cBranislav|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-05 04:15:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Thenomain: no that's not valid JSON. Curly braces are used exclusively for encapsulating an Object's Key/Value pairs.
21-01-05 04:15:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Also you can't have a key and value WITHOUT such an enclosing.
21-01-05 04:15:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> {"REF":5} should be valid JSON I think.
21-01-05 04:19:59: [Public] |cBranislav|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-05 05:31:04: [Public] |ctester990|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-05 05:38:04: [Public] |ctester990|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-05 14:29:24: [Public] |chugooo|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-05 16:35:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> If a Command has a global variable, I understand the global variable should be shared between all instances of that command. If I run a command than run the same command again, should a change to the global variable remain between instances? Example CmdSomething has a global attribute of target. target == instance_of_an_object If I run CmdSomething again. It starts with an instance of the old target. Super easy to get around
21-01-05 16:35:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: as I just declare target=None in at_pre_cmd. Just wanted to do a sanity check. Are commands are created at first call then are not trash collected? Did I mux up something where they are suppose to be trash collected?
21-01-05 16:36:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> Pun intended.
21-01-05 16:37:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Using a global variable like target for an instance scoped usage sounds like insanity to me
21-01-05 16:37:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> why not store it in the instance itself instead?
21-01-05 16:40:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> It is getting stored that way. I was just asking for reference to make certain I understood correctly. I was not expecting a change of a global variable to be retained after command completion. I was expecting a global variable to be on the class, and a change of the instance would not affect it.
21-01-05 16:40:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Class variables will be on the class, global variables are available everywhere
21-01-05 16:41:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> but yeah, if you store a class variable it is accessible from any instance
21-01-05 16:41:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> it could be shadowed, however
21-01-05 16:41:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> I think I got it. A global variable gets saved to the global dictionary?
21-01-05 16:42:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> yes
21-01-05 16:43:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> I'd recommend it to be avoided as much as possible
21-01-05 16:43:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Debugging global vars can be a nightmare
21-01-05 16:49:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> To make certain I am understanding. I am not certain I do. class ClassName():   attribute_something = 2 attribute_something is global to that class? Where changing it will get saved in the global dictionary for that class?
21-01-05 16:53:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> No, that is a class variable
21-01-05 16:53:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> it is scoped to that class
21-01-05 16:53:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> ClassName.attribute_something will get you the class variable
21-01-05 16:53:59: [Public] |chugooo|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-05 16:54:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> instances of that class can also access it using self.attribute_something but that will give you the instance variable if it has been defined thus 'Shadowing' the class variable
21-01-05 16:56:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> so:
21-01-05 16:59:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> So: class CmdSomething(Command):     some_attribute = 0 cmd_something_instance.some_attribute, should == 0 when the instance is initiated? I think I used the incorrect term previously when I stated it was a global variable. That would be something declared outside of the class.
21-01-05 17:00:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> CmdSomething.some_attribute is zero the moment that line is being read
21-01-05 17:00:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> it can be modified anytime before an instance is initiated
21-01-05 17:00:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> it is not an initial value
21-01-05 17:00:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> it is an actual value stored on the class
21-01-05 17:00:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> if you want to store something when the instance is initiated, you should put it in the init
21-01-05 17:01:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> ugh, discord and its formatting πŸ˜›
21-01-05 17:01:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> Got it. This is why if I change a class variable the change is retained between instances of each command?
21-01-05 17:02:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> A class variable is like a global in that a change to it can affect future instances of the class?
21-01-05 17:02:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> In python, the class is an object
21-01-05 17:03:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> so yeah, instances which do not have the instance variable defined will retrieve the class attribute when using self.attribute
21-01-05 17:03:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> if you specifically target the type, you will always get the class variable
21-01-05 17:04:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> Where making a change to a class variable within an instance will change the class variable? Thank you for being patient. I have never been great with variable scopes.
21-01-05 17:05:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> imagine we're in an instance's code
21-01-05 17:05:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> self.attribute = 0 will shadow the class variable, so it won't affect the next ones
21-01-05 17:05:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> CmdSomething.attribute = 1 will assign to the class, so it will
21-01-05 17:05:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> BUT
21-01-05 17:06:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> if we're dealing with a mutable type, such as a list
21-01-05 17:06:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> self.attribute.append() will affect the class list
21-01-05 17:07:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <DaveWithTheNiceHat|H> I think the largest take away is only make an attribute a class attribute if you really really need to share that value between instances?
21-01-05 17:20:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> A constant value shared by all instances is a good usage
21-01-05 17:21:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Like I dunno, instances of Goblin Classes having a category = 'Humanoid'
21-01-05 17:21:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Counters, too
21-01-05 17:51:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I kinda like the way that Ruby does it. You always know the scope of a variable e.g. @name="MyName" (instance variable), @@timer += 1 (class variable), child_index=1 (local variable).
21-01-05 22:08:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Yeah, I finally figured it out. I think I'm going to go with something like: "INT":{"value":8, "mods":{"drunk":-1, "stoned":-1}},
21-01-05 22:11:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> It's either that or have a section of sheet for mods.  json   "mods":{     "stoned":{       "attributes":{"INT":-1, "TECH":-1}<       "skills":{"Bravery":+100}     }, [...]   } etc.
21-01-05 22:15:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> nested dicts ftw
21-01-05 22:17:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Absolutely. The question, sadly, is: How do I organize it? Do I store total for skill or calculate as needed? And if I calculate as needed, when I add a mod, it might look like: "Bravery":{"mods":{"stoned":100}}
21-01-05 22:18:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Which...I am not against. But there are so many options on how to do it that I'm fussing.
21-01-05 22:22:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> Yeah. Organizing nested dictionaries is always so paralyzing.
21-01-05 22:25:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Reason|H> I feel like if I was better at designing them I wouldn’t need these extra dang indexes. πŸ˜€
21-01-05 22:31:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I tend to use classes for that rather than dicts. https://pastebin.com/nyerBQuu
21-01-05 22:44:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I ❀️ dot notation
21-01-05 23:54:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> That looks beautiful
21-01-05 23:54:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I have nested dictionaries for my skills right now and the way I did the mods was it's just one number, but every time there's a change it runs a function that contains all the modifying rules
21-01-06 00:53:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> My current draft: https://pastebin.com/SK2ukgGR
21-01-06 01:36:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Speaking of skills and stuff I've been itching to do one for VtM 5th
21-01-06 03:28:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> Maybe a silly question, but all those mu's that offer up points when doing rp?  How hard would it be to make npc vendors that take that currency?
21-01-06 03:33:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alkaid|H> do you mean something along the lines of RPP that staff award players over time or something like XP or another resource that builds with emotes/scenes? it ought to be very easy in a general sense since it'd be a tracked number attached to a character or account that you could have the vendor access and modify
21-01-06 03:37:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alkaid|H> the shop creation tutorial (https://www.evennia.com/docs/latest/NPC-shop-Tutorial.html) deals with creating a shop that runs on gold, but you could basically change the references of gold to another resource and have it working with minimal tweaking. any answer more specific than that would depend on how characters/etc are set up though
21-01-06 04:33:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> Cool
21-01-06 04:49:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> Asking because I had seen a few mucks where 'ph hey you can spend the rp currency on ic perks but you gotta talk to staff to do it,and they never seem to actually do the thing without being badgered into oblivion'
21-01-06 16:37:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <seagull|H> I feel like I must be being daft here, but I cannae figure out how to check if a class is in a module. This is how I would have expected it to work with utils.has_parent
21-01-06 16:37:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <seagull|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/796417254462849034/unknown.png
21-01-06 17:13:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Why not just import the class from the module and catch the ImportError if it's not there?
21-01-06 17:16:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: If you are in fact looking to verify that an object has a certain parent you use `utils.inherits_from` instead
21-01-06 17:22:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: As for the use of `has_parent`, it will not match anything unless you specify also the expected class. So if the object is of class `MyPart`, the path-string you send into `has_parent` should be `'typeclasses.parts.MyPart'`
21-01-06 17:22:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: That is, you seem to assume it will match partial paths but it will not (nor does its doc string suggest it does)
21-01-06 20:58:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: What in the world are you guys in the US doing ...? O_o;
21-01-06 21:00:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> I am watching that stream too holyf
21-01-06 21:06:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I've been waiting for this to happen since last summer 😦
21-01-06 21:26:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm not doing anything!
21-01-06 21:27:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Every single person that stormed the capitol building needs to be imprisoned for life on charges of treason IMO. Stop playing games with these people and let them know that this behavior is not acceptable.
21-01-06 21:27:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> They could be coding a MUD in Evennia right now, but instead they chose to do this with their time. Shame.
21-01-06 21:29:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Treason would require working for an enemy country so that's not going to fly I don't think. It does look like domestic terrorism though.
21-01-06 21:31:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hey, I don't pretend to understand stuff, I just say things aloud. πŸ˜„
21-01-06 21:32:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I honestly never expected something like this to take place. I thought all of the warnings people were saying about the turmoil that would happen were just them fantasizing about how crazy things are and that there would be some lamenting, but eventually people would move on.
21-01-06 21:32:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I guess I was wrong. Real serious stuff is happening over this.
21-01-06 21:37:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> Nope... The world has gone that crazy
21-01-06 21:37:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: This is real bad ya'll.
21-01-06 21:37:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> I hope this isn't the start of 2021 going "Hold my beer and watch this"
21-01-06 21:38:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: U.S. Capitol stormed, dais occupied, confederate flags on the senate floor...
21-01-06 21:38:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Not gonna fill this channel up with it though. This place has provided much solace for me over the years.
21-01-06 21:38:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> People keep speaking about current events like it's some encapsulated thing, but that's now how reality works. 2020, 2021, these are just markers on a chart.
21-01-06 21:39:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Yes, this is a culmination of 4 years of...events.
21-01-06 21:39:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: On a more cheerful note, Starship SN9 plans to do a static firing of three engines today :D
21-01-06 21:39:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> All of this stuff will continue for as long as it will keep momentum and that's all we can expect.
21-01-06 21:39:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Actually, on a more Evennia note, Griatch you never liked my post!
21-01-06 21:39:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Nobody responded or gave me emojis or anything. I dunno if anybody even noticed it.
21-01-06 21:40:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'll try to add more challenges as I consider them, but anybody can participate with simple things they think would be fun to make.
21-01-06 21:41:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I did see it but I've been logged out of github for a while.
21-01-06 21:41:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That's ok, I was just teasing. πŸ™‚
21-01-06 21:42:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The post is currently functional, but I've not fully realized it yet. It'll take time for it to gain traction, I'm sure. Once we get more people invested in using Discussions it should hopefully pick up as well.
21-01-06 21:42:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Since I've been on another computer. It's a good initiative though! But until we get notifications going in here, few people will keep up with new discussions unfortunately.
21-01-06 21:42:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And of course the webhooks.
21-01-06 21:42:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Exactly. But as a concept in general, I think it's the tier 2 step that we are missing for noobs to get their feet wet without essentially copying and pasting a premade solution.
21-01-06 21:58:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I blame all of this on the echo chamber that is social media
21-01-06 22:30:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I think I have reached the age where things have changed so much from what I consider normal, that I barely understand people anymore.
21-01-06 22:43:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Darren: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window
21-01-06 22:59:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It isn't just politics though
21-01-07 02:59:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> @Kovitikus You there, have my emoji
21-01-07 04:12:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> My family are diehards who believe this is some sort of false flag orchestrated by media to discredit    And I'm just.. about to literally bash my own brains out on the nearest brick wall.
21-01-07 04:13:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <WillDojinn|H> Thigs are not healthy.   This is the first time in 244 years we haven't had a peaceful transfer of power
21-01-07 12:44:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> Doesn't matter... whoever won there was going to be something like this shit happening unless it was an epic landslide and nobody was going to get something like 60% or more of the popular vote.
21-01-07 15:48:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I just hope that it isn't the new norm
21-01-07 22:38:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> I call BS unless there is evidence, preferably compelling, that leftists would invade the Capital Building if they lost.
21-01-07 22:41:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> I should correct to β€œradical leftists” because your average rightist wasn’t part of the insurrection.
21-01-07 22:43:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> I also call into question the relative (sadly, not complete) lack of violence practiced upon the riot that happened yesterday. But this is my bias showing; past evidence and future performance and all.
21-01-07 22:46:03: [Public] |crayzer|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-07 22:47:31: [Public] |crayzer|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-07 22:56:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> It didn't matter whichever side won the other side's radical section would have been primed for violent protest
21-01-08 01:14:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> extremely belatedly
21-01-08 01:20:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Is it strange that like.... a part of me feels this way: The USA was founded via revolution because a lot of people disagreed enough with England at the time that they felt it was worth fighting over.  Is it not then hypocritical to make revolution itself, which USA culture glorifies, a villainous thing? The country we broke away from sure didn't view our cause as righteous. And while I don't view the actions of these hooligans to be
21-01-08 01:20:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: particularly righteous, what they ultimately -want- is to overthrow what they view as their political enemies.  Depending on how you want to look at it, you could ALMOST call it patriotic, albeit in a twisted sort of way.  Like, how exactly does one win their right to choose their way through revolution and then criminalize violent invasions by outraged assholes? In a way this seems hypocritical.  I know there are many many more layers to it, but
21-01-08 01:20:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: there does seem to be some level of hypocrisy involved, and I don't have a good answer to my own weird ponderings.  I still say fuck these assholes who think that they are going to accomplish anything by just breaking into the Capitol, making a lot of noise and taking selfies.  In fact the ones who took selfies are seriously sealing their own fate.... congratulations, your selfie is proof of what you did, acceptable in any court of law. They don't
21-01-08 01:20:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: even need security cameras to go 'wtf, dude!'
21-01-08 01:20:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Soooooo many idiots.
21-01-08 01:33:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> > Is it not then hypocritical to make revolution itself, which USA culture glorifies, a villainous thing? General Robert E. Lee agrees.
21-01-08 03:40:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [fork]|H rje4242 forked evennia|H <https://github.com/rje4242/evennia|H>
21-01-08 03:45:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <jane|H> So, uh, how about them python mud codebases
21-01-08 03:45:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <jane|H> :)
21-01-08 03:48:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> So many! With so much to do for them!
21-01-08 03:48:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Welcome btw!
21-01-08 03:58:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <jane|H> Thanks!
21-01-08 03:59:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <jane|H> I've been writing some gathering/farming/crafting modules for an evennia instance so figured i would sit in here.
21-01-08 04:05:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Oh cool!
21-01-08 07:04:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> I wouldn't be opposed to someone overthrowing the government.
21-01-08 07:04:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> but also hello
21-01-08 07:05:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> I think the issue is probably a bit more complex. As the general "power" of the US wanes, that will be felt internally. This has happened a few times to empires throughout history.
21-01-08 07:06:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> And even places that weren't empires.
21-01-08 07:06:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> According to my information, that's usually the death throes of said empire, though.
21-01-08 07:12:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> There are two kinds of nations on Earth. Those that have fallen, and those that have ticking clocks.
21-01-08 07:12:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> this is true
21-01-08 07:12:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Which isn't to say that any in particular are in imminent danger of no longer existing.
21-01-08 07:12:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> But it'd be silly to think that this -isn't- the case.
21-01-08 07:12:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> no, death throes can last for a couple hundred years.
21-01-08 07:13:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> I do think we tend to have a bias that things that happened to civilizations of the past just won't happen to us, though. Like we're somehow beyond those same fates.
21-01-08 07:14:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Perhaps, offhandedly, 'China' might count as one of the few nations that 'still exists' and has persevered throughout the ages BUT it's very arguable what one means by 'China' because for all its long history, it has gone through many massive upheavels and changes.
21-01-08 07:14:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> :blobshrug:
21-01-08 07:14:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> i would say so, yeah
21-01-08 07:17:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> I got a fancy new job. They are going to read me my offer tomorrow.
21-01-08 07:41:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Oh hell yeah. What’s the gig?
21-01-08 09:22:04: [Public] |caiseven|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-08 09:39:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Phew. Getting back into gear. Still much to do away from Evennia atm though.
21-01-08 10:01:44: [Public] |caiseven|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-08 10:33:35: [Public] |cimp|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-08 10:41:03: [Public] |cimp|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-08 12:51:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Gratz @whizzlenizzle !
21-01-08 12:59:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Does anyone have tips for designing / making interesting rooms? I made a simple step based dungeon layout generator for protyping, now I have to fill it with rooms but my mind is drawing blank, all I can think of is "Room", "Hallway", "Stairs" -_-;
21-01-08 13:05:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> that dungeon is mostly just for crawling/combat, grabbing loot and coming back
21-01-08 13:05:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> but it feels completely flavorless
21-01-08 15:32:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> think of themes and then make lists of rooms based on that
21-01-08 15:32:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> so a temple would have catacombs, a sepulcher, an initiation chamber, etc
21-01-08 15:33:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> a castle would have a jail, an armory, store rooms, a well room, and on and on
21-01-08 15:34:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> then you can mix and match themes in your generator.
21-01-08 15:36:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Thats the part I am having issues with
21-01-08 15:36:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Imagine Diablo 1's early levels
21-01-08 15:37:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> all I can imagine is.. open areas, a closed room with some random furniture
21-01-08 15:37:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> and the stairs
21-01-08 15:37:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> I guess its just not inspiring
21-01-08 15:38:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> or I'm just not inspired
21-01-08 15:39:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> hmm, so you're saying you don't want to make themed rooms, you're focusing more on physical layout?
21-01-08 15:58:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> No, I want to make themed rooms
21-01-08 15:58:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> all I have now is the physical layout
21-01-08 16:00:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> The theme is a crypt-like dungeon with your usual skeletons, zombies and other weak critters
21-01-08 16:01:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> but coming up and describing a list of interesting rooms to use in there is much harder than I anticipated
21-01-08 17:13:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> Well, ask yourself, why did somebody go to the effort of digging out this room?  Is it a trap room to protect some other part of the dungeon?  Is it a room with a limited resource?  Was this a storeroom at one point in time?  Did it attract pests?  etc
21-01-08 17:16:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> And it is always fun as a GM/Storyteller to add a perfectly empty room in the middle of an otherwise deadly labyrinth filled with danger, just to see what the players do when confronted with....nothnig.
21-01-08 17:16:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Minglead|H> Public hello everyone!
21-01-08 17:16:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> Hello Minglead
21-01-08 17:19:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Minglead|H> Because I come from china. I want to transfer the project(evennia) into chinese. But I find it is very complex, any good suggestion?
21-01-08 17:25:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> There are some parts of the code that are i18n aware, I believe, and can be translated to other languages, and some parts of the code can be overridden with new python code to print messages in other languages, but unfortunately it isn't all of the codebase.  some parts are older and dont really have a good way to be translated.
21-01-08 17:27:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Minglead|H> Thank you very much for your suggestions, I am going to modify the .js files in css one by one
21-01-08 17:46:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Welcome Minglead! Thanks for taking the time to contribute :D
21-01-08 17:53:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> I'm stuck for choosing a word.. I am looking for a name for a folder that is like the world folder in evennia,  but less specific to gaming
21-01-08 17:57:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> ooooooooooograf
21-01-08 17:58:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Today's family games day but afterwards I hope to get back into my coding spree. πŸ™‚
21-01-08 17:59:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> @Tavis : universe
21-01-08 18:00:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Or global, to be more serious.
21-01-08 18:16:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> @Tavis core?
21-01-08 18:18:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> @friar good advice! I'll spend more time on the background story first
21-01-08 19:39:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> @Tavis how about "simulation"
21-01-08 19:43:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> huzzah
21-01-08 19:43:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> :chews on people
21-01-08 19:44:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <galgorin|H> Volund is simulating my cat.
21-01-08 19:48:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Volund is simulating Volund. Which is still pretty fun.
21-01-08 20:21:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Volund is the Dwarf Fortress of Mud Developers
21-01-09 04:59:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> the heck is that supposed to mean
21-01-09 06:24:15: [Public] |ctestgame|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-09 06:24:28: [Public] |ctestgame|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-09 06:26:47: [Public] |ctestgame|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-09 08:15:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> @Hattiehats the gig is a "Tech Lead" at a company that recently doubled in size. They need someone to take over all of their operations and kind of...re-architect their approach so that they can scale to new need. There's lots of development in the mix. Once re-architecture is done, my role will turn toward new product, like converting current process to Machine Learning, etc. by that time also I'm supposed to have a team under me,
21-01-09 08:15:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: so I will probably hire people once I'm done re-architecting.
21-01-09 08:16:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Congrats to the new job, whizzlenizzle :)
21-01-09 08:17:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> thanks! I'm excited about it.
21-01-09 08:17:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> it'll be my first role that doesn't have a set ceiling on it
21-01-09 08:18:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <whizzlenizzle|H> technically I own a portion of the company as well, but I don't really expect that to ever pay out :LUL: but maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.
21-01-09 08:32:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Sounds like a blast!
21-01-09 15:35:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> @Volund ahah Dwarf fortress is crazy complex with epic results πŸ˜› take it as a compliment
21-01-09 15:36:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> @whizzlenizzle looks very nice, hope you kick some ass
21-01-09 17:13:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kellen Deming|H> Hello All, I am new to Evennia and have an idea for a game that I would like to develop. If there are any developers out there that can use some extra money , I am willing to pay someone help me get my idea up. Please private message me if anyone is interested and I can give more details of what I would like to try.  Thank you for your time
21-01-09 17:17:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi Kellen and welcome to Evennia. :) Unless your idea is super-secret, it may help to briefly summarize what you had in mind (particularly the scale of it) to help people decide how much work it would be. :)
21-01-09 17:36:54: [Public] |cmoi|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-09 19:18:00: [Public] |cmoi|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-09 22:42:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> raaaaawr!
21-01-10 07:34:31: [Public] |cmoi|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-10 10:27:50: [Public] |cAnna|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo!
21-01-10 10:27:56: [Public] |cAnna|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-10 16:03:26: [Public] |cd3rNarr|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-10 16:14:54: [Public] |cd3rNarr|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-10 18:52:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> gyargh
21-01-10 18:52:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> damn last night waas crazy
21-01-10 18:53:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> I discovered MASSIVE vandalism to the Exalted MUSH wiki to the point where it was making PHP-FPM explode and also taking up 32gb of junk data...
21-01-10 18:53:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> cleaning up that mess was not easy. 😐
21-01-10 19:07:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Time to get cracking on my code again though
21-01-10 19:10:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Volund: Ouch. Someone ran some script against it?
21-01-10 19:22:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> I'm not entirely sure what happened.... or for how long it's been going on. It appears to be some kind of spambot that created over 600,000 accounts and about 1.4 million pages of advertisements and junk
21-01-10 19:22:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> seems wiki permissions weren't setup quite properly :/
21-01-10 19:23:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> since I couldn't find an extension or script that would do exactly what I wanted, I ended up tearing apart mediawiki's database schema and coming up with a series of SQL queries that would cleanup the mess.... but, well, it turns out strange things happen when you tell MariaDB to delete 1.4 million rows.
21-01-10 19:24:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> SOOOO I ended up having to delete in batches of like, 50,000
21-01-10 19:29:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> Need to set up wiki permission so people can't create their own account
21-01-10 19:29:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> And users without account can't edit
21-01-10 19:30:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Pat|H> Otherwise spam like a mother
21-01-10 19:30:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: That's a lot of spam :( I keep wondering what the point is; surely advertisments like that won't really pay off. A disgruntled player maybe?
21-01-10 19:34:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> spreading around links to sites makes them seem more important.... every single page created had dozens of links in it to this and that... it was clearly designed to try and game search engines and not to itself be useful
21-01-10 19:44:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Anyhoooooooo
21-01-10 19:45:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> it's time to get back to my coding. for about a week I got sucked into Fallout 4 survival mode for... some reason or another. O_O
21-01-10 19:58:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Gnome|H> It’s snowing. In fking Austin.
21-01-10 19:59:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Gnome|H> Whoops wrong channel all together
21-01-10 20:01:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> trying to remember where I was in my project... I think I've got the Plugin PR almost ready/proven - just need to write the tests and final documentation for it.... Athanor.... ah right I was working on the Zone command and related stuff
21-01-10 20:04:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> aaaaand... then I began working on Channels because I needed to have those working in order to announce Admin activities
21-01-10 20:27:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> ah here we go, I'm figuring it out.... where I left off. CHANNELS, yeah
21-01-10 20:29:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> soooo I have two kinds of channels - @ichannel and @ochannel - In-character and out-of-character - though both commands work the same, the two different kinds of channels exist in different namespaces and can only be joined by Characters and Accounts respectively - Accounts can't join in-character channels, characters can't join out-of-character channels, etc. from a code perspective Channels can be OWNED by any kind of Identity, but in
21-01-10 20:29:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: practice this will probably be limited to something sane...
21-01-10 20:30:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> and instead of the aliases/joins being on the Account and Object levels, Identities subscribe.
21-01-10 20:32:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Kinda subverting some of the existing infrastructure in order to make it work
21-01-10 22:26:29: [Public] |cx-n0|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-10 22:26:43: [Public] x-n0: hello!
21-01-10 22:28:49: [Public] |cx-n0|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-11 13:04:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2248|H ([Feature Request] Allow for non-interactive createsuperuser) in evennia|H: @srmeier, @jerryaldrichiii Sorry for not getting back to you[324 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2248#issuecomment-757938691|H>)
21-01-11 13:08:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2083|H (print() and errors no Longer outputs to log, commands execut[32 more]|H) in evennia|H: @blackmonkey Thanks for the further analysis of this; since[171 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2083#issuecomment-757940768|H>)
21-01-11 16:17:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H srmeier commented on issue #2248|H ([Feature Request] Allow for non-interactive createsuperuser) in evennia|H: > @srmeier, @jerryaldrichiii Sorry for not getting back to y[378 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2248#issuecomment-758060889|H>)
21-01-11 17:11:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> bwarghh
21-01-12 11:49:26: [Public] |casspirateclownfucker|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-12 11:49:36: [Public] |casspirateclownfucker|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-12 20:51:13: [Public] |cDarvill|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-13 03:41:28: [Public] |cjack|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-13 14:58:11: [Public] |crindil|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-13 15:40:46: [Public] |cDanweel|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-13 15:41:46: [Public] Danweel: Hello!
21-01-13 20:05:46: [Public] |ckman7802|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-14 12:59:50: [Public] |cduppo|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-14 13:01:20: [Public] |cduppo|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-14 19:51:34: [Public] |cedjarosu|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-16 02:52:44: [Public] |cYamio|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-16 04:43:58: [Public] |ctest09126553|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-16 11:10:46: [Public] |ctestyman|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-16 11:12:13: [Public] |ctestyman|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-16 21:15:51: [Public] |cwintran|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-17 00:16:32: [Public] |cDonald|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
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21-01-17 09:42:28: [Public] Griatch: Testing
21-01-17 09:43:16: [Public] Griatch: Testing
21-01-17 09:43:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Testing back
21-01-17 16:51:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Evennia!
21-01-17 16:53:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Hi!
21-01-17 19:18:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Hi there, new to Evennia, though I did some building many years ago. I've been playing around with things before I start in earnest, try to understand how this is set up.  Looking forward to this!   I've made a basic mistake though - My god account doesn't work quite right after I tried to adjust some character and login stuff:    When I go to Local Host, I get this: MudInfo: [account] connected The Character does not exist.  But I'm
21-01-17 19:18:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: active, and it has me OOC, I can't move into IC: That is not a valid character choice.    This might also have something to do with the 'unlogged-in screen' too - not getting that, either. I deleted some lines that I thought was only text - perhaps not.   Even just getting the default data that should be there would be great - I hadn't started versioning yet, but I obviously should!
21-01-17 19:39:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hu
21-01-17 19:40:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: not familiar with the connect command, but perhaps you still have the account but no character in it? Though that's usually not simple to do
21-01-17 19:40:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Command '@create/drop [accountname]:typeclasses.characters.Character' is not available. Maybe you meant "charcreate", "chardelete" or "ccreate"?  I get this, even though this is what I believe I want to do
21-01-17 19:41:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Yes, I assume that's exactly what's happening - i may have deleted the character out from under the account in the Web client
21-01-17 19:41:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> the webpage settings
21-01-17 19:41:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: as OOC, that's your account (I think). as IC, that's your character
21-01-17 19:42:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hum
21-01-17 19:42:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I think you can still run evennia createsuperuser
21-01-17 19:42:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that is create a second admin account (with a character in it). But there's probably a way to get your character back
21-01-17 19:43:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Right, so I don't have a Character, it seems, and I failed to make one   Okay, I'll try that c_c!
21-01-17 19:43:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: in the default multisession mode there's one character per account, so an account without a character should not be possible, at least, I think
21-01-17 19:44:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yueah, createsuperuser will probably create a second account and a character in it though
21-01-17 19:44:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I don't see any other way to do it. Well, no easy way
21-01-17 19:44:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Hm, then if this is what happened I should probably warn about messing around with the website object settings. Is it a 'bug' maybe? I broke it perhaps?
21-01-17 19:45:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I don't think it's a good thing to do anyway, and I would have thoguht Evennia prevented it from happening. Worth a warning... or perhaps something stronger to avoid doing it altogether
21-01-17 19:46:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Yeah :0  It might well be logical not to do it - but before someone knows better n_~ ;;
21-01-17 19:47:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: though it's true if you have MULTISESSION_MODE set to 0 I think. If you have it set to 2 for instance you can have more than one character per account
21-01-17 19:47:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and it's a bit tricky to prevent because, as far as I know, the permissions sit on the account... and on the website you login to your account. It doesn't care much if you have a character in it or not
21-01-17 19:47:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but there's probably a way to prevent that situation from happening
21-01-17 19:48:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> At the least, some nice red text haha
21-01-17 19:48:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho hold on
21-01-17 19:49:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it suggested you use `@charcreate` right? what's this command for?
21-01-17 19:49:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: doesn't it c reate a character in your account? If so you could login as OOC and use `@charcreate` I suppose, then `@ic` into it
21-01-17 19:49:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ('m not familiar with these commands as I've replaced the entire login process with a menu :P )
21-01-17 19:56:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Ooh, it got very angry with me when I tried to @charcreate. I have to try to create that second user account - I'll do that next. I'll save this output tho
21-01-17 19:57:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: :(
21-01-17 19:57:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah try the createsuperuser command. Hopefully it will work.
21-01-17 20:05:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Hmmm logout is just logout [name] right? I don't see this command in the docs...?
21-01-17 20:16:15: [Public] |cVortayne|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-17 20:21:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hu
21-01-17 20:22:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: quit perhaps?
21-01-17 20:22:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I think quit (or perhaps @quit) does the trick
21-01-17 20:23:03: [Public] Vortayne: test
21-01-17 20:25:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Quit was right, thank you - Ok, i got into the other account. I probably should just re-migrate to be careful though. I hadn't started anything.   I think the absence of a superuser char is a big deal. I'll reproduce to make sure I understand what actually caused it - Should I write the initial problem up for git, or is there some other way to submit issues for these edge cases?
21-01-17 20:26:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: no, submitting an issue on github is the recommended way
21-01-17 20:27:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues
21-01-17 20:27:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Great. --Even though I logged into the second account, it gives me a 500 error on the site. So it's good and borked now n_~. But thank you for the help, at least I kind of understand what's happening now
21-01-17 20:27:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you might want to keep a backup of your database file too, so if you find a sudden problem you can restore without losing everything. That's what I did anyway
21-01-17 20:27:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: actually I had a script to make backups on a regular basis :D but usually I just used the last one
21-01-17 20:28:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: wow
21-01-17 20:28:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: a 500 error can be cryptic too. I guess you can have the entire traceback i nthe log file to see what's wrong
21-01-17 20:29:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Yes absolutely - didn't think I'd mess things up so fast haha. But these sorts of weird things tend to happen to me, I should know better!
21-01-17 20:29:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> I'll look for logs
21-01-17 20:29:21: [Public] |cVortayne|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-17 20:33:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you should find them in server/logs
21-01-17 20:34:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, there's a record for breaking Evennig down quickly but I would say, you did a decent time :P
21-01-17 20:34:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: sorry I couldn't help you fix it. Perhaps creating more superuser aaccounts doesn't sit well with Evennia, though I don't see why it would
21-01-17 20:38:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well, it's time to go for me, it's getting late! see you all tomorrow!
21-01-17 20:43:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> @Danweel Just a warning, do not edit anything in the Evennia folder directly. All changes you make to your project are to be made in your project's folder.
21-01-17 20:45:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: good point, forgot about that one
21-01-17 20:45:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: cheers!
21-01-17 20:45:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It's something I try to remember to remind everybody who says they are new.
21-01-17 20:45:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Got it! And thank you Vincent!
21-01-17 20:46:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Because all sorts of weird issues pop up from doing that and we may have no clue they are editing Evennia files.
21-01-17 20:46:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> I'm pretty sure it's just the project folder - I made the changes via its website.
21-01-17 20:46:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> As a matter fact, don't even ever open the Evennia folder. If you need Evennia source code stuff, get it from the website.
21-01-17 20:47:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Yeah - I can update that code though right? Mostly forward compatible...?
21-01-17 20:49:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What?
21-01-17 20:49:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> the Evennia program itself, I can update that I'm assuming?
21-01-17 20:49:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> But when I work on the world, I use the project folder
21-01-17 20:49:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The engine, no, you shouldn't. Never.
21-01-17 20:49:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Just making sure!
21-01-17 20:50:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You change Evennia's behavior in your project folder.
21-01-17 20:50:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Things you write in your own project's typeclasses override the default Evennia behaviors.
21-01-17 20:51:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So say you make a Character typeclass, it inherits from Evennia's DefaultCharacter. If you make a new method on that typeclass that is called the same as something Evennia has, it will override it.
21-01-17 20:51:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It's called overloading.
21-01-17 20:51:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Overload, override, replace, same concept.
21-01-17 20:52:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Never ever edit anything inside the Evennia folder.
21-01-17 20:52:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Only ever change something within your project folder.
21-01-17 20:52:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Yes, I think that's what I think is happening, good.  But Evennia the program/engine? do I stick with 0.9.5, or is it fine to update that with git pull - I assume so right? How sure should I be before doing that?
21-01-17 20:53:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Navigate to the Evennia folder in your console and type git pull and then leave, that's all you should ever need to do inside Evennia.
21-01-17 20:53:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Great, duly noted and I will make double sure, too
21-01-17 20:53:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> As long as the changes are being pulled from the main branch of Evennia, you're fine.
21-01-17 20:54:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> Thank you for the help too! I appreciate it
21-01-17 20:54:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You're welcome. It won't fix whatever you got going on with the other error, but hopefully help you avoid mistakes later on.
21-01-17 20:56:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The first rule of Evennia is don't ever edit anything in the Evennia folder. The second rule of Evennia is DON'T EVER EDIT ANYTHING IN THE EVENNIA FOLDER!
21-01-17 20:56:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That should be the first thing anybody sees when they arrive at Evennia's site haha.
21-01-17 20:58:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Danweel|H> haha - Well, we could pin it here ; j
21-01-17 21:01:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Pointless. Nobody ever checks Discord pins unless someone reminds them.
21-01-17 21:01:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And at that point, might as well just remind them not to edit the Evennia folder.
21-01-17 21:18:20: [Public] |cAugust|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-17 21:21:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hello August.
21-01-17 21:22:45: [Public] August: Hey there.
21-01-17 21:24:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> auΒ·gust /Γ΄ΛˆΙ‘Ι™st/ adjective adjective: august      respected and impressive.     "she was in august company"          Similar:     distinguished     respected     eminent     venerable     hallowed     illustrious     prestigious     renowned     celebrated     honored     acclaimed     esteemed     exalted     highly regarded     well thought of     of distinction     of repute     great     important     of high standing
21-01-17 21:24:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: lofty     high-ranking     noble     regal     royal     aristocratic     imposing     impressive     awe-inspiring     magnificent     majestic     imperial     stately     lordly     kingly     grand     dignified     solemn     proud
21-01-17 21:25:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Haha, spam FTW.
21-01-17 21:30:07: [Public] |cAugust|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-17 21:30:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I ruined yet another demo-god.
21-01-17 22:51:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> @gr
21-01-17 22:52:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> @Griatch not sure if this is something that would interest you, I am making the transition to deploying via docker. I am using arm7l architecture (rpi) and i see there isn’t a built docker image for base evennia for that.
21-01-17 22:53:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> I have the image built if you’d like to add to the collection as evennia/evennia:latest_arm7l not sure how to share images though, without pusing to my personal repo on docker hub
21-01-17 22:54:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> *evennia/evennia:latest_armv7l
21-01-18 09:46:15: [Public] |cqwerty1212|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-18 09:46:41: [Public] |cqwerty1212|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-18 13:44:40: [Public] |cCable|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-18 13:51:30: [Public] |cCable|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-18 20:29:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [PR review]|H Griatch created review comment on PR #2291|H (Fix START_LOCATION behavior) for evennia|H: While the idea is good, this is an incorrect fix and cannot[366 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2291#discussion_r559782390|H>)
21-01-18 20:29:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [PR review]|H Griatch reviewed PR #2291|H (Fix START_LOCATION behavior): It's a nice idea, but this makes the `create_character` call[91 more]|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2291#pullrequestreview-570762590|H>
21-01-18 20:32:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [pull request]|H Griatch merged|H PR #2293|H (Increase SaveYesNoCmdSet priority to 150) to evennia|H/editor_no_north|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2293|H>
21-01-18 20:32:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 2 commits to evennia|H/master|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/compare/574d7fbd4f65...402d62a0884c|H>):
21-01-18 20:32:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Tim Chaplin]: Increase SaveYesNoCmdSet priority to 150\\Fixes a bug where[96 more]|H
21-01-18 20:32:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge pull request #2293 from tim-chaplin/editor_no_north\\I[39 more]|H
21-01-18 20:33:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 8 commits to evennia|H/develop|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/compare/b0d85a3ae4fa...3ba414664eb6|H>):
21-01-18 20:33:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Update bug-report.md\\Clarified the form a little
21-01-18 20:33:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Update documentation-issue.md\\Clarified template a little.
21-01-18 20:33:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  ... [4 more] ...
21-01-18 20:33:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge pull request #2293 from tim-chaplin/editor_no_north\\I[39 more]|H
21-01-18 20:33:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge branch 'master' into develop
21-01-18 20:35:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2292|H (Make more commands honor settings.COMMAND_DEFAULT_CLASS) in evennia|H: Makes sense. Thanks for the PR! (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2292#issuecomment-762459600|H>)
21-01-18 20:35:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [pull request]|H Griatch merged|H PR #2292|H (Make more commands honor settings.COMMAND_DEFAULT_CLASS) to evennia|H/command_class|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2292|H>
21-01-18 20:35:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 3 commits to evennia|H/master|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/compare/402d62a0884c...4a72a64733a7|H>):
21-01-18 20:35:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Tim Chaplin]: Make more commands honor settings.COMMAND_DEFAULT_CLASS\\As[590 more]|H
21-01-18 20:35:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Tim Chaplin]: Make ExitCommand inherit from settings.COMMAND_DEFAULT_CLASS[93 more]|H
21-01-18 20:35:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge pull request #2292 from tim-chaplin/command_class\\Mak[52 more]|H
21-01-18 20:42:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [PR review]|H Griatch reviewed PR #2299|H (Make gametime.real_seconds_until use timezone-aware datetime[...]|H): Hm, this seems like an incorrect fix ... You are right in th[413 more]|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2299#pullrequestreview-570767830|H>
21-01-18 20:43:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 4 commits to evennia|H/develop|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/compare/3ba414664eb6...286e86bbdbab|H>):
21-01-18 20:43:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Tim Chaplin]: Make more commands honor settings.COMMAND_DEFAULT_CLASS\\As[590 more]|H
21-01-18 20:43:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Tim Chaplin]: Make ExitCommand inherit from settings.COMMAND_DEFAULT_CLASS[93 more]|H
21-01-18 20:43:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge pull request #2292 from tim-chaplin/command_class\\Mak[52 more]|H
21-01-18 20:43:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge branch 'master' into develop
21-01-18 20:43:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [pull request]|H Griatch merged|H PR #2303|H (Add section on usage of a remote Postgres database) to evennia|H/feature-advanced-remote-postgresql-use-case|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2303|H>
21-01-18 20:43:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 2 commits to evennia|H/develop|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/compare/286e86bbdbab...36e089ba48cc|H>):
21-01-18 20:43:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Pete LaDow]: Add section on usage of a remote Postgres database
21-01-18 20:43:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia:  [Griatch]: Merge pull request #2303 from Suudy/feature-advanced-remote-[71 more]|H
21-01-18 20:51:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 1 commit to evennia|H/develop|H: [Griatch]: Clean up some markdown syntax
21-01-18 21:02:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [PR review]|H Griatch reviewed PR #2306|H (Make use of environmental variables for superuser creation): This is a fine idea, but reviewing and testing this I find a[696 more]|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2306#pullrequestreview-570776078|H>
21-01-18 21:08:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 1 commit to evennia|H/develop|H: [Griatch]: Make sure self.lhs/rhslist are always lists. Resolve #2290
21-01-18 21:09:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2290|H ([BUG] MuxCommand - lhslist/rhslist not consistently typed) in evennia|H: I changed so lhs/rhslists are always lists in #2290. I don't[37 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2290#issuecomment-762471522|H>)
21-01-18 21:09:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issues]|H Griatch closed|H issue #2290|H in evennia|H: [BUG] MuxCommand - lhslist/rhslist not consistently typed|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2290|H>)
21-01-18 21:13:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 1 commit to evennia|H/develop|H: [Griatch]: Fix typo on UnixCommandClass contrib. Resolves #2305
21-01-18 21:14:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2305|H ([BUG] UnixCommand - Optional argument "help" labeled as "hel[...]|H) in evennia|H: @strikaco Yeah, that looks like a typo, the adjoining commen[174 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2305#issuecomment-762473012|H>)
21-01-18 21:14:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issues]|H Griatch closed|H issue #2305|H in evennia|H: [BUG] UnixCommand - Optional argument "help" labeled as "hel"|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2305|H>)
21-01-18 21:17:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Stricaco is correct, Vincent's Unixcommand class is indeed crazy powerful and worth to look into as a command syntax alternative: https://github.com/evennia/evennia/blob/574d7fbd4f65cae60c534fe592803057d452ed7b/evennia/contrib/unixcommand.py
21-01-18 21:22:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Huh. I was not aware of the existance of that UnixCommand class
21-01-18 21:23:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It helps to take a look at the contrib/ folder from time to time, it has a lot of goodies
21-01-18 21:24:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I never do :/
21-01-18 21:24:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> If I ever start an Evennia project from scratch, I'll use that instead of MuxCommand
21-01-18 21:25:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I don't think I'd use it for regular users (except if I did a hacker-game maybe), but it sure would work very well as an alternative syntax for admin commands.
21-01-18 21:26:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> The syntax is cleaner and you can pass a bunch of options
21-01-18 21:26:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yep
21-01-18 21:27:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Potentially a bit more to write I suppose, using /switch instead of --switch, but quite familiar too, and it would be easy to have a shortcut -S for a switch too
21-01-18 21:27:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Do any of Evennia's stock commands use MUXCommand?
21-01-18 21:28:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: All admin commands
21-01-18 21:28:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: And all regular commands too
21-01-18 21:28:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Not that much to re-write then
21-01-18 21:28:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: MUXCommand is not the same as UnixCommand?
21-01-18 21:28:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Oh
21-01-18 21:29:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I won't be rewriting any stock commands at this point. :) I have enough other things to do. But it's nevertheless a nice syntax.
21-01-18 21:29:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> UnixCommand inherits from Command, apparently
21-01-18 21:29:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yes, it's a separate base
21-01-18 21:38:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [PR review]|H tim-chaplin created review comment on PR #2291|H (Fix START_LOCATION behavior) for evennia|H: Thanks, I made your suggested change. At least, I think I di[21 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2291#discussion_r559804685|H>)
21-01-18 22:07:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H tim-chaplin commented on issue #2299|H (Make gametime.real_seconds_until use timezone-aware datetime[...]|H) in evennia|H: You're right; however, overriding `settings.TIME_ZONE` has n[347 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2299#issuecomment-762490602|H>)
21-01-18 22:11:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [pull request]|H tim-chaplin edited|H PR #2299|H (Fix test_gametime.py for non-UTC servers) to evennia|H/fix_time_test|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2299|H>
21-01-18 22:12:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [pull request]|H tim-chaplin edited|H PR #2291|H (Fix settings.START_LOCATION behavior) to evennia|H/fix_start_location|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2291|H>
21-01-18 22:36:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [pull request]|H srmeier review-requested|H PR #2306|H (Make use of environmental variables for superuser creation) to evennia|H/develop|H <https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2306|H>
21-01-18 23:03:10: [Public] |cdorf|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-18 23:29:59: [Public] |cdorf|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-19 00:40:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I noticed you can change the num_sep in the rpsystem contrib. Is there a way to change it in the rest of evennia?
21-01-19 02:18:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> ALso I changed the prefix in the rpsystem contrib from / to $ and it didn't work. I thought it might be about the regex but I escaped it and now the search function isn't running without the $
21-01-19 02:20:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Hmm it doesn't work in the search when I try other characters like > either
21-01-19 02:30:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> has anyone written a way to adapt the rpsystem for a first person output and use other symbols as a reference marker?
21-01-19 03:07:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> can Evennia in general handle different verb tenses?
21-01-19 03:07:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> that'd be an interesting contrib
21-01-19 03:10:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> hmmm what do you mean?
21-01-19 03:10:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Like... "You is" vs "you are"?
21-01-19 03:11:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Most systems that use first person just do it like "You have emoted: whatever here"
21-01-19 03:12:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> My friend really wants first person so I'm trying to fix it but I'm so lost in the rpsystem contrib code.
21-01-19 03:13:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Right now I can't change the _prefix from / to anything else either, it's very confusing to me.
21-01-19 03:20:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> @alephate what I found useful was using the exclude parameter from .msg to send two message. One to the player using first person, one to the rest of the room using third person omniscient.
21-01-19 03:26:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Aha, cool πŸ™‚
21-01-19 03:28:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> maybe verb tense is the wrong terms? I mean like you could set a global variable and have, "You walk", "He walks", "He walked", etc.
21-01-19 03:28:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I have the multiple messages part set up by recognizing in the send_emote function that if the receiver is seeing the emote about themselves it will fix their name
21-01-19 03:29:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> but I'm having trouble arranging the prefix to be $ instead of /, and also setting up references like $him or $her
21-01-19 03:30:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Like the way I want it to work is that you write something like emote points a finger at $blah and wags it distractingly before smacking $him with the other hand.
21-01-19 03:30:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> and blah sees : Bloo points a finger at you and wags it distractingly before smacking you with the other hand.
21-01-19 03:31:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> probably some issue escaping the $
21-01-19 03:31:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> try a couple of 's
21-01-19 03:31:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> I mean \'s
21-01-19 03:31:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I put a backslash before it
21-01-19 03:31:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> try two
21-01-19 03:31:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> ok!
21-01-19 03:32:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alkaid|H> i don't think the rpsystem has any sort of pronoun handling in place, although you could do that. if you did, you'd probably need to set up something more specific than $him, like $blah_him, for it to then parse accordingly
21-01-19 03:33:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I was thinking I would set it to reference whoever had last been $name'd, my friend played this game a long time ago that was very syntactically uncomplicated like that
21-01-19 03:34:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/800931258746011668/unknown.png
21-01-19 03:35:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> That's with double backslashes
21-01-19 03:35:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I think it's not the $ because when I try another symbol like > for instance, the same problem with the search comes up
21-01-19 03:44:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Replacing the /me with a different symbol doesn't cause it to be recognized either
21-01-19 03:57:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> you were getting the same result with one backslash?
21-01-19 03:57:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> do you have a link to the code that parses the emote?
21-01-19 03:58:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> should be in Evennia's master repo
21-01-19 03:59:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://github.com/evennia/evennia/blob/master/evennia/contrib/rpsystem.py#L325
21-01-19 04:00:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> yeah same results with any other symbol
21-01-19 04:00:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> like ~, >, or an escaped @
21-01-19 04:05:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> weird, I wonder why changing the PREFIX doesn't work
21-01-19 04:06:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> seems pretty straightforward
21-01-19 04:07:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> and you're reloading, right...maybe something with the compiled regex?
21-01-19 04:07:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah it's baffling me
21-01-19 04:09:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> the dash might have problems because of the numbering system
21-01-19 04:09:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> I'm not familiar with rpsystem though
21-01-19 04:11:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> here's an idea. When you change the PREFIX, look up the value with @py
21-01-19 04:11:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> oh, I guess you already see that with your error
21-01-19 04:11:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> hmm
21-01-19 04:13:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah, it shows the same error message the / shows if that object isn't present (only it shows it with / instead of $ if the prefix is set to /)... somehow there must be something in the search, but I just don't see it.
21-01-19 04:18:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> it's notable too that in the module the / is not escaped
21-01-19 04:18:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> afaict
21-01-19 04:18:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> I thought you had to escape forward slash in python regex?
21-01-19 04:20:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> There's also this part that confuses me _RE_SELF_REF = re.compile(r"/me|@", _RE_FLAGS)
21-01-19 04:20:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> because @ doesn't work in lieu of /me even without any changes
21-01-19 04:21:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> and when I try to change the _PREFIX, /me stops being recognized even when it hasn't been changed
21-01-19 04:22:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Also if I  try to use $ without escaping it, it's not recognized to make the search return an error even
21-01-19 04:23:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/800943458289582110/unknown.png
21-01-19 04:24:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> the SElF_REF sounds like a bug at least and worth opening an issue
21-01-19 04:24:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/800943670492397568/unknown.png
21-01-19 04:24:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> it seems like / is not a special character in Python regex fwiw
21-01-19 04:28:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Maybe the rpsystem contrib is old enough that nobody's really interested in it
21-01-19 04:29:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> on one hand I feel like I should try to code something myself that I understand and on the other hand this is just so cool πŸ˜„
21-01-19 04:31:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> well you could be right that if it hasn't been used much then there might be bugs
21-01-19 04:31:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> but in that sense you're doing the community a public service by finding them πŸ™‚
21-01-19 04:31:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> and more people will benefit overall
21-01-19 04:36:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> thanks ergo πŸ˜„
21-01-19 05:02:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I ended up writing my own pronoun system. I’m not sure if it’s efficient, but you can just run search replaces on instances like $POSESSIVE or similar to grab the right pronoun - might not work with how rpsystem works tho
21-01-19 06:40:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> can I see how you did it hattie?
21-01-19 08:26:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: The rpsystem uses something called director-stance. What you refer to, @alephate, is called actor-stance emoting. This is not supported by the rpsystem contrib.
21-01-19 08:29:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: You should be able to replace the /me with some other marker though.
21-01-19 09:19:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: As for usage, I think the rpsystem has been used; but I guess people have been happy with the defaults :)
21-01-19 09:44:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> @alephate I’ll send you a pastebin when I’m at my computer next.
21-01-19 11:28:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> @alephate   https://privatebin.net/?a963408a08c4cf6a#B2CDJtqM4AgyMRCxhLAE58ARFtQEEc514wMZDxqRnGA5
21-01-19 11:29:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I wouldn’t use this code out of the box - it doesn’t handle edge pronouns very well. I don’t store the pronouns in the player object anymore either. Instead I just store the type (masc/fem/neutral) and grab them from elsewhere to reduce database fuckery. It’s a few bytes per character but every little helps.
21-01-19 11:30:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> It’s also a horrible abuse of regex but fuck it, prototype code deserves to be messy.
21-01-19 11:31:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I also just noticed it also only does pronouns for two characters. Eh, something to touch later.
21-01-19 12:33:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Hattihats: So this is not an actor-stance emote then the way I understand it - it does not customize the message based on who sees it, it appears ('you' for the one emoting, '<sdesc>' for others seeing the text)? Could you give an example of how an emote would look, using this?
21-01-19 12:40:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I may have misunderstood the request @Griatch, though this is the pronouns side of things. Everywhere else in the code I just make two calls to .msg. One for the first person call specifically, and the next to everyone in the room except you.
21-01-19 12:41:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: So could you give an example of how a properly decorated emote string should look using this?
21-01-19 12:51:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Honestly? I currently use this on the back end for pregenerated strings and haven’t considered how best to provide it to users in a command (trusting them to write themselves, yaknow?). Note that I was specifically talking about a system to work with pronouns, but... I can tinker with an implementation in a couple days time.
21-01-19 12:55:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Oh ok. I was not looking for a specific implementation. :) I was just curious since I understood this to be something to be used instead of the rpsystem for emoting. If it's just for internal strings that's a different matter. :)
21-01-19 12:56:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: When you have 100% control of the strings you can just make sure to add strings that work just the way you want them to, so that's fine.
21-01-19 13:06:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I can see where the confusion came from, it’s definitely more of a tangential thing
21-01-19 13:13:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I actually did a much simpler thing for Evscaperoom, it parses a string "~You ~smile" into two strings "You smile" and "Bob smiles", to be distributed to the various parties. It works fine when one has control over the input and can add the correct exceptions for irregular verbs. https://github.com/evennia/evennia/blob/master/evennia/contrib/evscaperoom/utils.py#L106
21-01-19 14:54:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> My game uses free-form emotes so there's no need for any of that, but I do have a system of substitutions (used mainly for messages) that also work with speech and such. I'm still not quite happy with it but it does work. https://pastebin.com/R2E5H4gY
21-01-19 15:23:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> haha hattie I like how you called it mess
21-01-19 15:30:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> thanks @Griatch, I don't know why the replacement of /me and the _PREFIX isn't registering, but it's enough of a non-issue that I'm not going to set up a clean evennia this time to check if it's reproduceable. probably just something I messed up somewhere. if I'm building a disgraceful newb-coder patch on top of the rpsystem I'll just include the usage of $ in there
21-01-19 15:31:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Just don't go about modifying the code in core. ;) Copy out the code and use it in your game dir instead
21-01-19 15:33:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah I have it copied into my world folder since I already modified some of it (hence probably having messed it up somewhere) πŸ˜„ πŸ˜„ it's an awesome contrib but I just have to mess with everything! learning process!
21-01-19 15:35:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Cool :) It's certainly possible there is an issue with the /me regex, it's not too common to want to swap it out
21-01-19 15:37:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Yeah there isn't really a need per se
21-01-19 15:47:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <ergodicbreak|H> did you sort out the issue with the PREFIX?
21-01-19 19:48:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I just put this into the emote command
21-01-19 19:48:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> https://pastebin.com/byXXFd1n
21-01-19 19:49:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> so it technically uses the / but also the $ πŸ˜„
21-01-19 20:00:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [push]|H Griatch pushed 1 commit to evennia|H/develop|H: [Griatch]: Fix errors in cmdparser for post-index match-separators
21-01-20 02:23:14: [Public] |crct|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-20 02:25:16: [Public] |crct|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-20 05:32:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatch https://github.com/github/feedback/discussions/3190
21-01-20 05:54:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Related thread as well. https://github.com/github/feedback/discussions/3143
21-01-20 08:41:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Thanks for the link. I made a reply, disagreeing ;)
21-01-20 09:08:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You make valid points.
21-01-20 09:21:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It's a good discussion to have by all means even though it stemmed from the guy not knowing the functionality.
21-01-20 09:35:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah. I mean, we didn't know how it worked exactly either, hence why we had a little experiment of our own.
21-01-20 09:36:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think that it will be a bit confusing for someone new to Discussions, but otherwise it will very quickly become a non-issue after people settle in.
21-01-20 09:48:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yeah, I think people'll warm up to it quickly. That said, it's still a public beta. We'll see down the line how the final release will be.
21-01-20 09:48:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm still holding my breath for webhooks.
21-01-20 09:49:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Also, thanks a bunch for your contribution to the torch challenge. That's exactly the kind of participation I was hoping for. The challenges aren't just for noobs, but for veterans of the engine to participate in as well, to showcase all the different ways the same challenge can be completed and to give noobs insight into what a well designed result looks like.
21-01-20 09:50:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I sometimes I feel like I have to directly confront some folk and guilt them into participating in improving stuff like tutorials and this challenge thread. I know it's not easy and it can be time consuming, but the community needs improved resources.
21-01-20 09:51:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's a lot of folk here that are more than capable of writing up a challenge of their own or even just participating in the torch one, but I haven't called them out by name yet. I might have to resort to it.
21-01-20 09:53:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It's a little hard to expect participation in Discussions before we have webhooks to echo in here, I feel. It's early days yet.
21-01-20 09:53:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Meh, that but also just contributions in general.
21-01-20 09:54:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Maybe others are just waiting to see the result of what you come up with regarding the 1.0 documentation and then we can work forward from there.
21-01-20 09:54:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I don't know how much of the tutorials you are fully rewriting.
21-01-20 09:56:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Many existing tutorials will fold into the Beginner-tutorial and be pretty completely rewritten. Others will remain as 'extra' stuff. You can see the plans in the develop branch of the documentation already.
21-01-20 10:02:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Not everything is set in stone yet of course.
21-01-20 10:07:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Anyway, things like the challenge-thread is a nice touch - and easier to maintain in Discussions than in the current forum format.
21-01-20 10:07:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Haha yeah.
21-01-20 10:07:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I like that there are sub-threads. I'm sure you read how I instructed people use the thread itself.
21-01-20 10:07:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It keeps things tidy.
21-01-20 10:09:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yes. I'm not sure about the fact that it only shows a few of the posts and you have to click `View more` for longer sub-threads. I feel that'll easily kill a longer discussion since it's easy to miss.
21-01-20 10:10:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Well, hopefully people will figure it out. It's still better to have that extra step than the chaos of people being 25 pages deep and asking for help on a challenge that was on page 2.
21-01-20 10:34:01: [Public] |cbill|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-20 10:34:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi bill
21-01-20 10:34:28: [Public] bill: hello
21-01-20 10:35:54: [Public] |cbill|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-20 10:36:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Wow
21-01-20 10:40:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> lmfao
21-01-20 10:40:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The never-ending cycle of public demo contestants on the Python is Right.
21-01-20 10:41:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Game show*.
21-01-20 10:45:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I have been planning to set up a log of what commands people actually enter on the demo. It'd be interesting just how far they go and what they attempt/try before disconnecting like this. Haven't gotten around to it though.
21-01-20 10:45:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> A really good idea.
21-01-20 10:45:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> We'll find out just how competent the masses really are.
21-01-20 10:46:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> But also, 1.0 is like, a billion times more important. πŸ™‚
21-01-20 11:18:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia is currently working on the SessionDB change, which is the most 'breaking' thing when it comes to testing, since one can't really test it until all is already in place.
21-01-20 11:35:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Today is a day of new beginnings. Perhaps I'll jump back into my restructuring.
21-01-20 11:36:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I left off on moving a bunch of logic to my InventoryHandler, but I'm having a logical debate with myself on which actions constitute something as an extension of the inventory and which are simply generic item mechanics.
21-01-20 11:38:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Perhaps I should just make a generic ItemHandler and instead of placing "Get, Put, Take" type logic on the inventory, I'll just make it as item manipulation logic.
21-01-20 11:38:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I honestly don't think a lot of that semantic makes a difference in the end, but it's enough of a reason for me to knock myself off course 2 weeks ago.
21-01-20 12:10:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I guess I'm not going to avoid creating an ItemHandler anyway, because my object stacking functions and other miscellaneous behaviors require it.
21-01-20 19:48:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Grrr. Just spent an hour debugging a weird login problem that turned out to be my client, not the game >.<
21-01-20 21:41:55: [Public] |ctest999|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-20 21:42:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi test999
21-01-20 21:46:45: [Public] |ctest999|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-20 21:54:45: [Public] |ctest999|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-21 09:56:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Evennia!
21-01-21 10:05:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hi vince.
21-01-21 10:06:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/801754475537629214/an2lhgcr9kc61.png
21-01-21 10:08:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'll translate the image for you. A person is holding two pieces of paper, one in each hand. In the one on the left it says, "Times I have used REGEX." and in the right, "Times I have had to learn REGEX.". Below that it has a caption, "Corporate needs you to find the difference between these pictures." Below that it has a photo of what-is-her-name from the American TV show The Office saying, "They're the same picture."
21-01-21 10:15:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Ayyyy Vincent
21-01-21 10:29:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Kovitikus: Lol (and nice with a visual explanation of the image, kudos!). After many years I think I'm finally at the point where I can actually make regexes on the fly without relearning every time. But I still need to go to the docs for more esoteric uses.
21-01-21 10:30:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, I didn't wanna leave Vince out, since I'm sure he'll get a chuckle out of it as well. πŸ™‚
21-01-21 10:30:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I found this site that lets even a noob like me make something that works.
21-01-21 10:30:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> https://regex101.com/
21-01-21 10:31:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It tells you in real time if the expression finds stuff in your test string and even informs you in real time what each part of your expression does in a succinct definition.
21-01-21 10:31:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yeah, I've used that too, it's excellent for debugging/checking bigger regexes.
21-01-21 10:49:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: lol, I admit I agree withj that
21-01-21 10:49:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> πŸ˜„
21-01-21 10:50:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: somehow I thought I would try to come with a solution that doesn't involve regexes, 'cause we do need to extract info from pattern at times
21-01-21 10:50:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but we could have a readable pattern too, no argument
21-01-21 10:51:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and I'm not really convinced by the... verbal expression thingie either
21-01-21 10:51:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I prefer it than re syntax to be fair
21-01-21 10:52:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I dunno what you mean, but Griatch did teach me to not use regex when it's not needed and instead just check if a word is in the string with Python.
21-01-21 10:53:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, I had a question on stackoverflow asking "how to remove extra spaces in a string". And the accepted solution was to use regex. Come on
21-01-21 10:53:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh my.
21-01-21 10:54:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: https://github.com/VerbalExpressions/PythonVerbalExpressions
21-01-21 10:54:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Strip removes it from the beginning and ends of a string, so how do you remove it from the middle? I just use split().
21-01-21 10:54:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm not a huge fan, but I agree with the original intention
21-01-21 10:54:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: personally I advised a while loop
21-01-21 10:55:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Huh... this example of testing if we have a valid URL is just regex, but written in human readable format.
21-01-21 10:55:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: whlie "  " in string: string = string.replace("  ", " ")
21-01-21 10:55:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I do find it easier to read than a regex, though admittedly, it would be a rather short one :D you could do a one-liner. People like one-liners
21-01-21 10:55:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ahh I see, so you just replace any whitespace with an empty string.
21-01-21 10:56:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: exactly why I don't really like verbal expression
21-01-21 10:56:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> One liners for the sake of brevity is stupid in my opinion. Who is the one line for? Why does it matter?
21-01-21 10:56:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that's just replacing a symbol with a method name. Easy to read sure but pretty long to do anything
21-01-21 10:56:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I use a comprehension for this: `string = " ".join(part.strip() for part in string.split())`
21-01-21 10:57:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: often I hae a string like this : "Name: ..." and I would like to extract the name. You could do this in Python without re but that's not pretty. You could do it with a re but that's not pretty :P
21-01-21 10:57:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That's a good way too Griatch.
21-01-21 10:57:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: there, Griatch has a one-liner, and it's Pythonic
21-01-21 10:57:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatch is always reminding me just how little my brain thinks in Python haha. He destroyed me on the torch challenge.
21-01-21 10:58:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: what more do you want :D . regexes aren't good for everything
21-01-21 10:59:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: though I still wonder how fast they are. I hear people say regexes are pretty slow, even compiled, yet no other solution has come up, so I would say, this is not so slow
21-01-21 11:00:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: regexes are faster once you get to more complex replacements that would require if statements to figure out in Python.
21-01-21 11:01:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: They are compiled C code after all. They are not faster for simple things like removing spaces or single words, that kind of thing.
21-01-21 11:01:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I see
21-01-21 11:02:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well, I would like to find something more intuitive to use, something that doesn't require you to just open the doc each time and doesn't require a headache to read, but so far I haven't come up with a solution.
21-01-21 11:02:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Regexes also cannot handle state, which is what we are running into for some of the ansi-to-html conversions which are based off regex. We will probably have to bite the bullet and do a loop over the strings in the end for those.
21-01-21 11:02:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> From what I understand, regexes are slower for simple functions because it has to also track the position and other junk you might not need.
21-01-21 11:03:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I can't help you here. ANSI codes and regular expressions are not that intuitive to me :P
21-01-21 11:03:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: vincent-lg: I use the inbuilt glob library for some parsing, but it's hard to beat regex for flexibility. Regex comes from the Perl world (the Python `re` is in fact a port of the Perl regex as far as I understand), and perl loves to be super-short and abbreviated.
21-01-21 11:03:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Reminds me of when I had to learn binary math, like it's something I'll ever use.
21-01-21 11:03:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well, I'm not afraid to create things nobody will ever use
21-01-21 11:04:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I've done that a lot and will do so again. I've coded an alternative to i18n because I didn't like it :P and I've coded a small GUI toolkit because I didn't like what existed. So really, an intuitive pattern system wouldn't scare me
21-01-21 11:05:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Kovitikus: One can optimize regexes in python a little by pre-compiling them, but yeah they definitely have overhead - they are their own little language after all.
21-01-21 11:05:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: ho definitely. And Perl has a lot, like A LOT of symbols!
21-01-21 11:05:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I don't know glob though, I should investigate
21-01-21 11:05:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And you're coding a new engine for MUDs because you don't like Evennia, vincent. πŸ™‚
21-01-21 11:06:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: @Kovitikus: now, you're being unfair. In the past 16 years I have used binary operators last month for the first time
21-01-21 11:06:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Glob is nice for adding your own simple parser - for example the new EvMenu templating mechanism allows you to write `foo*` and have glob catch everything starting with `foo` without having to write a full regex.
21-01-21 11:07:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It's similar to Unix wildcards.
21-01-21 11:07:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: no, Evennia is great. I just loose myself too easily and I seem to have strange needs for my game, so I'm strating over. I found that withi some libraries you know well it's easier to start over than rebuild at times
21-01-21 11:07:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Unfair about the binary math or unfair about Evennia? I was joking that you don't like Evennia haha.
21-01-21 11:07:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ahh yeah, all of the vehicle stuff.
21-01-21 11:08:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: hooo okay. I use glob/rglob in pathlib, but that might use glob under the hood
21-01-21 11:08:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I hope that it's not as difficult as I feel your project made it out to be, because I would think ships and riding horses in my game would run into similar issues.
21-01-21 11:08:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: no, coding vehicles in Evennia is quite smooth, don't worry
21-01-21 11:08:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh ok.
21-01-21 11:10:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I was tired of the "old way" of handling vehicles like objects and moving using the direction just like usual. I wanted another experience. Evennia didn't make it hard to do and I coded it with no real issue.
21-01-21 11:10:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I've test-driven vincent's cars, it's really quite fun :)
21-01-21 11:10:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: in Awake you can buy cars, climb into them, drive them... but you still use the directions to move, like you would on foot. I find it sad but this convention has hold for a long time in MUDs
21-01-21 11:11:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: held*
21-01-21 11:11:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: vincent-lg: Btw, you got some nice shoutouts for your UnixCommand contrib the other day.
21-01-21 11:13:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: actually I like my driving system, but I've realized it's going to pose a problem: we'll need a lot of rooms to make a single sidewalk, probably 10 on each side on average. And I fear  players will easily get lost and have a hard time finding each other for RP interaction. That's a debate I know well, space and logic
21-01-21 11:13:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: ho I've seen, I have to read it and fix it. That was my idea after all!
21-01-21 11:14:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hmm I had the same concern for my game regarding a sewer room that has some water running through the middle and a "sidewalk" on each side.
21-01-21 11:14:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: vincent-lg: You wouldn't need to actually make separate rooms, honestly. That kind of thing probably works best with a coordinate system, only placing you in a room when you get out of the car.
21-01-21 11:14:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hehe I'm coding a fun system on my server that lets me know if my game is down for any reason and send me a text message on my phone (easier way to get my attention). The trouble is, if it's a bug that affects the entire machine, my watchdog is no use
21-01-21 11:14:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It makes one section of the sewer 3 squares wide by default.
21-01-21 11:15:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> 3 rooms wide*
21-01-21 11:15:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: yep, but to the player it will look like a room right? it leaves the car, then can move north, west and south... and go on foot, following the sidewalk.
21-01-21 11:16:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Depends on if you think it's relevant to actually describe the entire sidewalk. I'd probably abstract that away.
21-01-21 11:16:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but you're right, I don't need to create separate room objects for that, especially since I force the game to use a coordinate system (except in some situations where coordinates can be turned off)
21-01-21 11:16:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You could have each sidewalk and the road be separate rooms, but they'd still all get communication from each other...
21-01-21 11:16:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Just have one room for 'the sidewalk on North Road'
21-01-21 11:17:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: that's a good point. No I guess it makes no sense to describe the sidewalk. The description could vary by, say, letting you know the closest address, and that can be automated
21-01-21 11:18:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: When you drive you can still have different descriptions rush by, but when you stop and get out on North Road you will always end up in that sidewalk room that lets you get to whatever other locations are available on that road. Or one of two sidewalk rooms or whatever suits your scale.
21-01-21 11:18:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> This section of sidewalk hasn't seen repairs in years. It has giant cracks and grass growing through. Bits of litter are strewn about.
21-01-21 11:18:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm just worried players will be lost quickly. But perhaps if I keep a decent orientation system (each room you see the number, like "you are facing 8 Holloway Road", that might not be too hard to get used to how things work
21-01-21 11:18:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Sometimes getting lost is the best part of a MUD.
21-01-21 11:19:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Not that it's always desirable, but... it can be memorable.
21-01-21 11:19:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: as for how players will meet, I was thihnking about bars or restaurants, like Awake does, and make these places easier for players to meet in high numbers (Awake has a system of social points, actually, so if you meet in a social place with more than one players these points slowly rise, I don't know if it's a good idea though)
21-01-21 11:19:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: ho I see what you mean. It's an interesting option too!
21-01-21 11:20:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, besides if I have a taxi system, one doesn't really get lost
21-01-21 11:20:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Well your game is outdated now.
21-01-21 11:20:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You need ride services instead of taxi.
21-01-21 11:20:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @vincent: There are ways to battle getting lost without a graphical map. For example, if it was easy for a player to retrace their steps, or to auto-move to a location they do know. For example: you could have a command that told you "you first moved north on Main Street, then you turned left onto Wicher Road, then right again to get to where you are now (North street)".
21-01-21 11:21:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: good point Kovitikus
21-01-21 11:21:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: And another command to just drive home automatically.
21-01-21 11:21:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Or to the nearest major point of interest, whatever
21-01-21 11:21:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: hooooo another great idea
21-01-21 11:22:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: a command that lets you mark your steps... that shounds easy to do and easy to use
21-01-21 11:23:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, I was thinking about a GPS system but not like in some games where you just type "drive home", where you can schedule, but then it will just tell you "turn left" or "turn right", it won't do it automatically. So you learn a little bit without beingi coerced
21-01-21 11:24:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yeah, a gps-voice kind of system is a good compromise that also teaches you (and is thematic too)
21-01-21 11:25:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: awake lets you add points to the gps, so you drive somewhere, you can gridguide add whatevername and then gridguide whatevername to go there, but it's instantenous (or almost, depending on the distance) and you don't see anything happens, the car is just "teleported" to the location. Not enough fun :P
21-01-21 11:25:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: (yes, I'm referring to AwakeMud a lot today, I feel they're quite close in design from what I want and I'm stealing ideas from them, shhhh)
21-01-21 11:28:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: @Kovitikus: for what it's worth, when I was running a more medieval MUD and you could rent post horses, we had a system of "waypoint", so you could ride automatically from one to the next (and this would make you actually travel in the road rooms, so other players saw it happen and you could look around during the travel) and at a way point, which usually had more directions, the horse stopped to await your orders. Except if
21-01-21 11:28:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you asked for a specific way point, it could decide the shortest path from waypoint to waypoint. But this game had a lot of rooms, so a lot of space, and that wasn't really great for layer interaction
21-01-21 11:29:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I've seen the same system in The Two Towers (they allow it whether you're riding or just on foot, though you'll go slower on foot). It's quite good, waypoints are connected by roads  mostly. I still find a lot of value in this game
21-01-21 11:30:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Suddenly a barbarian steps into the road and decapitates your horse with one swing of his 2H axe.
21-01-21 11:30:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: If you have a large number of rooms, something like this becomes a nice quality-of-life feature of course.
21-01-21 11:31:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and yet in this case the world is definitely huge. For each road room there are about 10 wilderness room. The map is almost unbroken and usually you focus on a road and try not to get too far, except if you know the way. And still players interact, because the game has been built around towns (rather small) with clear social points. That's what I would like to do myself
21-01-21 11:31:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I agree with vince's concern of lack of interaction in the open world if it is too vast.
21-01-21 11:31:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> We always have to remember that these games have very low populations.
21-01-21 11:32:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: indeed
21-01-21 11:32:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that got me in my own game, because we went to a lot of work to make sure there was no central place, players felt free to explore... but they didn't interact too much because the social points weren't clear and exploring was more valuable
21-01-21 11:32:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that was a mistake on our parts. Well, on mind, mostly
21-01-21 11:33:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I was at one point sketching on a system where long travel would mean the traveller (or caravan) would stay in the same room while the scenery changed around them. That way they could interract while travelling easily. I also pictured the travel could easily track events happening and spawn highway robbers etc when it calculated they were near a dangerous area.
21-01-21 11:33:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Just like an overworld area in a game like Final Fantasy.
21-01-21 11:33:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I think a huge 10 000+ room world is not a good idea with today's player bases.
21-01-21 11:34:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, even a few rooms of difference between one player and another and maybe the only interaction you get is that you see someone moving in the distance.
21-01-21 11:34:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: I was about to mention highway robbers. There aren't much on T2T, but you can definitely see your trip cut short bu ambushes, though most roads are safe. But I like your idea of a "rolling carpet room"
21-01-21 11:35:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Your idea of a single area where you sort of RP your way through the area is more apt to players interacting, but it can also mean you lose a bit of the expansiveness of the world.
21-01-21 11:35:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It'd have to be balanced.
21-01-21 11:35:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Kovitikus: The issue is also that most systems don't show even people at a distance, so those in the next room are completely invisible to you.
21-01-21 11:35:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The game I used to play had a ferry where you get on board and then you float down the river for 30 minutes, with some strings popping up to tell you that you are progressing.
21-01-21 11:35:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Really? That's curious.
21-01-21 11:36:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I would say, space isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it ought to come with caution. If you make sure social points are in sight (you always know where one is, and know the chances are high to meet other players at any time) usually players who've a bit tired about exploring (which happens to everyone) just comeback to the social point. Free interactions.
21-01-21 11:36:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The game I come from has an echo that reaches x amount of rooms distance, depending on line of sight and perception stat.
21-01-21 11:36:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Kovitikus: That's cool, but an extremely unusual trait for most MUDs.
21-01-21 11:36:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, like a waypoint area in an action RPG. The location where you portal into a zone and it's like a hub.
21-01-21 11:37:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Confuses me that a game wouldn't let you know someone is only a few rooms away moving about.
21-01-21 11:37:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> In RL you can look down the street and see people moving.
21-01-21 11:37:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Depends on how big a 'room' is.
21-01-21 11:37:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it can get a bit spammy actually. But I guess most of the time,w e don't think about it too much
21-01-21 11:37:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Especially if you are heading in that direction.
21-01-21 11:38:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it's a shame, seeing players that are quite close would help in setting chance meeting too
21-01-21 11:38:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: And yes, it can be very spammy. A common way I've seen is to be able to 'peek' into the next room to see who's there but no more .
21-01-21 11:38:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think you have to code it so that there's a frequency measurement and you swap to some other form of echo that relays a multitude of activity without individual strings being spammed.
21-01-21 11:39:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: in EmpireMUD you can see players that are clearly in the same zone and see thee distance/direction. Trouble is, EmpireMUD has HUUUUUUGE maps and players don't really interact RP, because they're supposed to build their own place in a relatively remote location
21-01-21 11:39:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, or you could incorporate it to the look command
21-01-21 11:40:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that way it would be voluntary, if you want to be spammed, just spam :P
21-01-21 11:40:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The Eternal City had a scan command, so you could scan in a direction and get targets.
21-01-21 11:40:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Awaken has it too
21-01-21 11:41:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You also had a gaze command to give you a response of what's around you, markers and such.
21-01-21 11:41:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: to allow you to shoot people away. And mobs respond, which creates distant fights. As pointed out by someone this morning it can be a bit tricky with a screen reader, but it's good for the adrenaline rush :D
21-01-21 11:41:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> And yeah, TEC also has it so you can just look in a direction and it will show you the room in that direction.
21-01-21 11:41:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho, the gaze command is a good idea
21-01-21 11:42:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, it returned landmarks are X distance away.
21-01-21 11:42:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So you knew how close or far away you were from certain landmarks that give you an idea of where you are at on the map.
21-01-21 11:42:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that can help you get oriented too
21-01-21 11:42:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> But it's coded in ColdC and it has actual legitimate 3D distances built into the game.
21-01-21 11:43:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It wasn't just coordinates, but it was like a text game built on a 3D environment.
21-01-21 11:43:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Pretty weird.
21-01-21 11:43:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, Empire is a bit like that too. At times you wonder if it were planned to be a text game at all
21-01-21 11:44:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Some restrictions applied as well, they had trouble with room placement because everything had a size and couldn't be smushed into things.
21-01-21 11:44:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: our own sailing system used a very complex 2D environment and you had to learn your way around before setting foot on a ship, especially if you had no one to help :D players got marooned on islands for a few days. Not a really great thing to motivate you to play
21-01-21 11:44:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I prefer Evennia over that, because nothing has a size or location. You could stack 100 rooms in the same direction from a single room and it wouldn't matter.
21-01-21 11:45:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that's what I'm worrying about
21-01-21 11:45:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: a coordinate system without size is good, I used it a lot, but then... if you want to build smaller rooms, or rooms that can overlap (like inside a mall, a coordinate system becomes a bit complicated to handle), things get hairy
21-01-21 11:46:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I like coordinates, I find they make things a bit more logical
21-01-21 11:46:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I also admit, it's not a perfect system
21-01-21 11:46:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Dealing with slipping a new room in between all the other rooms must be a pain.
21-01-21 11:46:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You have to write an algorithm to recalculate each room's coordinates all the way down the line.
21-01-21 11:47:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: actually your scan command, for instance, if it can see, say, in a 6-room radius, might be a bit memory-consuming if you don't have directions. 'cause that can be adapted
21-01-21 11:47:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yep
21-01-21 11:47:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What if you have 10,000 rooms to the east? You have to rewrite all their coordinates? What if you got other things in your game that rely on those coordinates?
21-01-21 11:47:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> My question is, how do I do a pathfinding "auto-walk" system without coordinates though?
21-01-21 11:48:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: what I usually do is, some of my rooms have no coordinates at all and if that happens, the scan command and distance combat just use exits and calculate, because coupling both system is usually faster. But that's not a perfect approach
21-01-21 11:48:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Do I just have to create meta pathways, such as I map out how to get from the bank to the hospital and anything that comes near those points uses that as the main path and then goes back to other paths?
21-01-21 11:49:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if you want to move with your auto-walk more than 8 rooms yeah you might feel some performance problems if you only rely on exits rather than coordinates. And yet... coordinates don't necessarily make your life much easier in this context
21-01-21 11:49:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> But again, anytime I add a new room along that path, I have to go back and manually edit the autowalking pathways.
21-01-21 11:49:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Kovitikus: Without coordinates you most likely need to do a breadth-first algorithmic search of all exits and use that to find your location.
21-01-21 11:50:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What kind of bread?
21-01-21 11:50:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: breadth-first would be my choice too
21-01-21 11:50:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but even with a coordinate system, you have to take into account that not all rooms necessarily exist on a path, so it has to be smart enough to couple
21-01-21 11:50:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I had a great article on pathfinding algorithms
21-01-21 11:50:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I suppose that there's no easy and perfect way to solve the issue.
21-01-21 11:50:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: including A8 and other tactics. I lost it. I should have saved the URL
21-01-21 11:51:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It's basically search through all rooms 1-exit away, then all exits of each of those rooms to find all rooms 2-exits away and so on, down to a certain depth.
21-01-21 11:51:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: basicall the idea is: you happen into a room, the algorith looks the exits, then add all the rooms to the queue and goes on
21-01-21 11:51:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah but then how do you track the shortest path once the algorithm finds the destination?
21-01-21 11:51:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: That's what the breadth-first algorithm does
21-01-21 11:52:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: so it explores the map recursively and when it finds your destination it stops. Problem is, if your origin and destination are far, a lot of rooms will need to be explored by the algorithm. If you have coordinates, you can map origin and destination and try to find the shortest path between them, only checking which room is closer to the path (that's a bit of mathemtical calculation, but not that hard)
21-01-21 11:53:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: by definition the breadth algorithm stops when it finds a path, and because of its nature, it has to be the shortest path
21-01-21 11:53:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So it is like a list of lists, each list having a potential pathway until one of the lists finds the destination room. Then if multiple of those lists finds the destination room it counts how many elements are in each of those lists and the one with the least amount becomes the chosen path?
21-01-21 11:53:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you can run simulation. I wish I had this article, it had animations to show you how each altorithm worked on a graph
21-01-21 11:53:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: vincent-lg: Coordinates usually simplify this significantly, but one issue is that the simplest coordinate mechanism assumes perfect connectivity (so e.g. 4 exits in every room), which is not always the case
21-01-21 11:55:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @kovitikus: If you have very complex pathing you could have to do something like that, but normally, once you find the room you have the shortest route already, because that will happen at the smallest number of traversed exits.
21-01-21 11:55:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: right. Personally I look at intermediate coordinates, but then ask the current room which exit is closer to the coordinate... so I run a very small breadth-first algorithm between each coordinate, if that makes sense. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that but that's the idea
21-01-21 11:55:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think I can use the bread algorithm to make "common pathways" and then the player's character will only have to find the pathway to the nearest meta pathway and then again if it leaves that meta pathway.
21-01-21 11:55:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Like main roadways.
21-01-21 11:55:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ahh, yeah, naturally the first list that hits the destination room will be the shortest.
21-01-21 11:56:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: that's a good solution too, and that's basically what I did in my former game. I had "way points", I created a small script to run a pathfinding between each and create "best paths". This took some time, but I had to run this script once (and I did it offline, so as not to disturb players), then players used these data without problem
21-01-21 11:56:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: There is only one 'list' normally, because the algorithm must track where it has been.
21-01-21 11:57:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: usually queues are advisable in thsese contexts
21-01-21 11:57:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: That list is a stack that shrinks and grows as the algorithm follows the various possible branches.
21-01-21 11:57:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: at least that's what I use. That's kind of like a list with optimization to handle recursivity
21-01-21 11:57:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I don't get it, if it's just one list then how will it know the final directions? How does it know to delete all the rooms it explored to the south when it finds the destination to the north?
21-01-21 11:58:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Or does it only pick one direction at a time?
21-01-21 11:58:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yeah, once you have a fixed grid, it can be an idea to create a table of common paths already found
21-01-21 11:58:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I thought it explored north and south at the same time.
21-01-21 11:58:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: something like: old_exit, room = queue.get(); for exit in room.exits: queue.put((exit, exit.destination))
21-01-21 11:59:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: No, it will step through each exit at a time. Breadth-first means that it will check all possible rooms 1-exit away first, then all 2-exits away etc.
21-01-21 11:59:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: okay it does look pretty hairy
21-01-21 11:59:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah like echo location, but I just don't get how it's actually executed in code I guess.
21-01-21 11:59:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and in parallel you should store each exit in a dictionary. So then you could build the "origin path" recursively in your dictionary. At least that's how I do it
21-01-21 11:59:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What you're describing Griatch is like a ripple through the water in a pond when you plunk a stone into it.
21-01-21 11:59:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: The alternative solution is the depth-first algorithm, where it picks one exit and then picks another etc all the way until it reaches a dead end, then gradually steps back from that, picking new exits until it is back to the start
21-01-21 12:00:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: exactly so, a ripple
21-01-21 12:00:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Kovitikus: Correct
21-01-21 12:00:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That math is beyond my comprehension, but I suppose I could learn when I finally get around to doing something like that.
21-01-21 12:01:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Griatch: ho I never used this one. I guess it's good if you know the origin and destination are very far apart, but it's risky
21-01-21 12:01:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I've not even got a world to map yet, so it's far down my list of priorities, but I'll keep it in mind and see if I can learn when the time comes.
21-01-21 12:01:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you'll see a lot of good tutorials out there when the time comes
21-01-21 12:01:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I wish I still add my article to share but...
21-01-21 12:01:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hum
21-01-21 12:01:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yeah, these are standard computer science algorithms.
21-01-21 12:01:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: So lots of info to read on them
21-01-21 12:02:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Cool, I'll see if I can find some videos that explain it.
21-01-21 12:02:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Preferably in some Pythonic manner.
21-01-21 12:03:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I don't remember her name now, but one dev in here implemented an Evennia search algorithm just a few months back. We talked alot about it in here, you may still find the log about it and possibly links to her code.
21-01-21 12:03:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: https://towardsdatascience.com/introduction-to-graph-algorithm-breadth-first-search-algorithm-in-python-8644b6d31880
21-01-21 12:03:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: (that's not the one I wanted)
21-01-21 12:04:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho, videos! you have a lot of them
21-01-21 12:04:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but I can't see if they're good so I'll let Google that
21-01-21 12:04:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> @Natalie Might have been Nat.
21-01-21 12:05:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah it was her. She spoke about how she had a dream about BFS and it clicked.
21-01-21 12:06:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Right
21-01-21 12:08:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I get most of my eureka moments when I'm laying in bed about to go to sleep or when I wake up.
21-01-21 12:09:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: mine comes in the shower :P I've solved lots of bugs with warm water and soap :P
21-01-21 12:09:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Classic Archimedes' principle.
21-01-21 12:11:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> It's interesting how you can solve something by walking away from it and doing something else totally unrelated.
21-01-21 12:11:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Brains are weird.
21-01-21 12:13:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I believe brains often do work best if you don't trouble it too much. Think of something else. Do something else. Don't focus. That's counter-intuitive and yet, it has worked for me a lot of times
21-01-21 12:14:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I think it's part of the underlying idea of meditation.
21-01-21 12:14:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: sometimes it's just a good thing to give the brian time to consider and do something else. Then an hour later I go back to the issue and suddenly I see a solution, or I make up my mind on an "obvious" course of action that had escaped me
21-01-21 12:19:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: time to go, time to eat, time to work. Later!
21-01-21 12:26:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> o7
21-01-21 13:25:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H Griatch commented on issue #2306|H (Make use of environmental variables for superuser creation) in evennia|H: > Sounds good , Added a few changes to address the points ab[249 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2306#issuecomment-764640839|H>)
21-01-21 15:23:52: [Public] |cHHP|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-21 15:24:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi HHP
21-01-21 15:40:51: [Public] |cHHP|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-21 15:51:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatch getting shot down like it's speed dating.
21-01-21 15:52:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: People really does not want to chat, eh
21-01-21 15:52:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> lol, I've seen some rare ones that send out a message and nobody is here to respond.
21-01-21 15:52:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's some others who have responded to me, but yeah, most of them seem to have no interest.
21-01-21 15:53:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yep, seems more rare the other way around though.
21-01-21 15:53:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That's fine though, they don't have to be social to participate in my opinion.
21-01-21 15:54:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I find that at least 90% of any community I join is non-participating members.
21-01-21 15:54:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Of course not, but still, when someone talks to them directly, one would think one would say at least something?
21-01-21 15:54:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Even if it's 'hi, gotta go'
21-01-21 15:54:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Most people have to manually rejoin an IRC channel, unless they have some auto-join setup, correct? With Discord you can join a server and then forget about it for years on end.
21-01-21 15:55:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yes, IRC is auto-cleaning unless you set things up. But even for Discord you'll get notified if someone talks to you directly.
21-01-21 15:56:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: But even so, most IRC members are idling, that's the usual thing in all online chat communities.
21-01-21 15:56:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ahh yeah, I just mean that it's likely the reason why I see so many non-participating members in a Discord Server is that it's easier to join and then turn off all notifications for it and never look at that server again.
21-01-21 15:56:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I guess, although I wonder why one'd join a server in the first place then?
21-01-21 15:57:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> A lot of folk that I poke tend to say, "Uhh yeah, I forgot I was in this server."
21-01-21 15:58:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Not the same as connecting to the demo and keeping quiet though; that's at least an active act.
21-01-21 15:58:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hard to forget you connected when they connected like 30 seconds ago ;)
21-01-21 15:58:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I downloaded an interesting rogue-like game on Android called "Caves (Roguelike)" and it surprised me that they have a Discord server. I joined it, talked a bit to some folk, but I haven't played the game in maybe a year now, but I'm still in the server. I haven't chatted there in a year either.
21-01-21 15:58:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, I was just thinking aloud in general about online communities and how most of it is non-participating members.
21-01-21 17:30:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> In fairness it's been like this for decades. Even before the internet was accessible to the general public, BBS operators were always complaining about people not participating.
21-01-21 17:33:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I think maybe 25% of any community interacts with the others at all.
21-01-21 17:39:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's probably a bad idea to try to engage people the moment they log on. I know it irritates the hell out me when staffers are like "Hi can I help you with anything?" the second I log on to a game. I'm like, "Damn I've only been connected for 10 seconds give me moment to look over stuff then maybe I'll have questions."
21-01-21 17:45:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <BrotherBrandy|H> Yeah, being asked if you need help with anything before you even know what you might need help with is annoying.
21-01-21 18:09:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Personally, I think that a lot of the people connecting to the demo are merely curious to see what a modern MUD server is like. When they realize it's pretty much the same as what they remember from the 90's, they immediately lose interest.
21-01-21 18:25:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> is it supposed to be different though?
21-01-21 18:29:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I think maybe people are expecting it to be
21-01-21 18:30:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> being kind of old, I'm curious how it could be
21-01-21 18:30:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> is there anything you're doing to try to make the experience more modern?
21-01-21 18:37:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I don't know what can be done in plain text that wasn't being done 25-30 years ago
21-01-21 18:38:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> trying to wrack my brain, I've noticed more integration between like discord bots and game context ...
21-01-21 18:39:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> cooler user interfaces sometimes.
21-01-21 18:40:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> hmm
21-01-21 18:40:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> I think the built in website integration in evennia is cool
21-01-21 18:41:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> One thing I want to do with it is make a forum that is connected but I don't know how yet
21-01-21 18:41:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> it would be nice if people's forum PMs could line up with their ooc mail ig
21-01-21 19:00:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> Trying to build a crafting system, looking at the puzzles contrib for tips
21-01-21 19:00:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> This made me laugh
21-01-21 19:01:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <alephate|H> _PUZZLE_DEFAULT_SUCCESS_USE_LOCATION_MESSAGE = "|c{caller}|n performs some kind of tribal dance and |y{result_names}|n seems to appear from thin air"
21-01-21 19:14:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: back I am, for 30 minutes or so
21-01-21 19:22:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Welcome back.
21-01-21 19:23:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm puzzling over a premature optimization... yes, again!
21-01-21 19:25:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Tsk.
21-01-21 19:26:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: basically I'm putting group name (kindi of the singular name) and plural names as attributes. But to group by names, it mens browsing the location's contents and for each retrieving two attributes. Which could create a lot of queries in a row. I don't know if it's a huge issue but I'm trying to see if I can't load the atributes beforehand, perhaps to cache them
21-01-21 19:34:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I was wondering, we can access github.com/evennia/evennia, it means that evennis is a Github organization, isn't it?
21-01-21 21:30:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: good evening to all!
21-01-21 21:31:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Au revoir!
21-01-22 00:01:23: [Public] |ctestme2|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-22 00:02:40: [Public] |ctestme2|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-22 01:07:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [fork]|H Sarajin forked evennia|H <https://github.com/Sarajin/evennia|H>
21-01-22 09:13:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Evennia!
21-01-22 09:14:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi vincent-lg
21-01-22 09:15:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Griatch! I may have missed your answer, and I've been wondering for a time. You have a github/evennia/evennia, meaning evennia is an organization right?
21-01-22 09:15:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Correct
21-01-22 09:16:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I thought organizations where for companies only, but I've seen this a lot, so I guess I should create an organization too :D
21-01-22 09:16:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if my code gets any more stable, that is!
21-01-22 09:17:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: perhaps if I ever hit 0.1, time to transfer repos
21-01-22 09:17:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: https://github.com/evennia will show you the repos that are part of the Evennia org. It includes the evdemo game code and ainneve as well as other things maintained within the context of Evennia.
21-01-22 09:18:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ho good po9int
21-01-22 09:19:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I didn't even check. As for me I have the source code, some prebuilt (that I keep separate because they're so heavy) and the code of my "shortcut" executables, which is in Rust :P
21-01-22 09:21:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It would make little sense to keep evennia as griatch/evennia for example - using an org helps organize and also you can set up contributors, access etc if you want something more formal (for example, more people have access to push to the `ainneve` repo than to the `evennia` repo)
21-01-22 09:23:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: that makes sense. Could you make sure only one people (the owner) could push on master for stability, for isntance? well, it's not 'master' anymore, it's 'main' now :D, we should get used to it
21-01-22 09:24:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm hosted at vincent-lg/talismud right now, it's an ugly URL but I didn't think I could create an organization. Also I've bought a domain name and it redicts there, so I'll need to update it. Quite easy to do really
21-01-22 09:25:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yes, you can do permissions per-branch too nowadays. I still use master-branch etc for evennia, no point in changing that for an existing repo I don't think.
21-01-22 09:25:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, makes sense
21-01-22 09:27:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I think I've solved my attribute-caching issue. Will try to code it when I'm done
21-01-22 09:28:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: What was the issue?
21-01-22 09:31:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm storing two wttributes on virtually each object, containing the singular name (to group, different from the key) and the plural name. So when a player enters a room the game has to browse the contents, and execute two queries for each. I don't think that's great for performances. Since these are two special attributesI think I'll "cache" them early on, all the singular/plural names in memory which won't be that much, but it
21-01-22 09:31:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: might make a huge difference. I still don't know if it's good to have 80 SQL queries executed in a matter of miliseconds :D
21-01-22 09:32:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Caching is simple enough by all means, if you don't intend to often change those Attributes
21-01-22 09:35:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: no, they'll mostly stay as they are and most will be grouped in prototypes anyway, so I don't think it's a huge investment in caching and it feels better than just "browsing" and sending two queries per contained object when the time arises
21-01-22 09:46:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Sounds better to query normally on-demand and cache it then
21-01-22 09:56:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, when I'll have these two alternatives, I'll just time (no need to profile right now since I didn't notice an issue) and compare and see what I get
21-01-22 10:40:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You're not allowed to call it master branch anymore Griatch.
21-01-22 10:40:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> You have to call it main branch.
21-01-22 10:41:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Lol, I don't *have* to do anything. Github's just changing the default name.
21-01-22 10:41:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> πŸ˜„
21-01-22 10:50:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: to be honest, when I first saw the change on Github, my first thought was: "right, developers can't RESIST changing something that will make some updating just for the fun of it". But I was curious to know why the change and I must say, I didn't think about it
21-01-22 10:51:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Because of slavery and racism in America.
21-01-22 10:51:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That's why they changed it.
21-01-22 10:51:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: there you go, I've changed the database schema again. I'm quite happy with PonyORM, except it doesn't support migration, so I have to remove the database file each time. Hopefully it will become more stable
21-01-22 10:52:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: yep, but I plead ignorance, not of the facts, but of the reasons. I had to read an article on why 'master' was to be removed
21-01-22 10:52:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: now I know and I try to explain when my fellow developers use whitelist of blacklist in their code :D
21-01-22 10:53:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Meh. I had a long conversation in here with someone already on the topic, but the too long didn't read version is that it's silly and when does the offensive nature of things ever end?
21-01-22 10:54:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I mean... America doesn't have a  monopoly on colonial slavery - but this isn't really a good place to discuss the pall slavery cast across the entire world lmao. Like, it's pretty famous in america, but it was a global phenomenon. Main branch is as accurate a term as any other, I ain't gonna beat someone to death for not changing to it though.
21-01-22 10:54:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, it works fine.
21-01-22 10:55:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia shrugs
21-01-22 10:55:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The conversation did spark in me an interest to understand the origin of these terms though. Cause we all know that this stuff is very very old in the technological world.
21-01-22 10:55:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm certain whitelist and blacklist existed well before computers and it makes me curious to know the origins.
21-01-22 10:56:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> The English dramatist Philip Massinger used the phrase "black list" in his 1639 tragedy The Unnatural Combat.
21-01-22 10:56:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes, quite old indeed.
21-01-22 10:56:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: some terms are offensive. No matter the situation. I personally don't take offense when people make disability jokes, but yesterday I chatted with someone who was quite  offended at one of them. It all depends on the individual. I'm ready to adapt if needed. The debate over offense and politically correct is definitely a tough one I'm not usually eager to participate in :)
21-01-22 10:56:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hard drives operate in master-slave relationships too, traditionally. But I think many brands quietly changed that already some time ago
21-01-22 10:57:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: same difference yeah
21-01-22 10:57:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That may have even happened due to technology and software for HDD management getting better.
21-01-22 10:58:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I don't even remember the purpose of a slave drive.
21-01-22 10:58:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and yes Kovitikus, you're probably right. Theese terms are pretty old. The point isn't to decide whether to blame computer science for being prejudiced (I guess we can all answer that question) but whether to change it, if not quietly as Griatch pointed out :D
21-01-22 10:58:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: For me 'master' branch is just a term. I won't change it because it's a chore to do. If someone genuinely would come and say that it offends them that Evennia still uses the traditional naming I'd consider it, but I won't do it pre-emptively.
21-01-22 10:59:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, the conclusion for the changes is really that it doesn't matter one bit and we could call main branch anything really.
21-01-22 11:00:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: personally and referring to discrimination in terms of disability, I have always said changing names doesn't solve any problem, it often ammounts to a "hide the dust under the rug" approach. But I know others think differently and I don't mind channging what I say
21-01-22 11:01:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah, it's often about intent.
21-01-22 11:01:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yesterday a friend of mine, who's husband is in a wheelchair, told me that a doctor had visited him after surgery and said "you will be walking in no time". Well... not really. She was furious. I laughed. He was kind and explained the situation (his wheel chair wasn't present at the time, of course)
21-01-22 11:02:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: we all react differently to names
21-01-22 11:03:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: There is an interesting variation in Swedish, where a very popular type of chocolate treat was always called a 'negerboll' (yes, n* ball). Noone really thought about it, it was just a name (and the term literally means 'black' and has less historical connotations in Sweden anyway). Eventually this was pointed out though and these days, they are just called 'chockladboll' (chocolate balls), which is just
21-01-22 11:03:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: as ...
21-01-22 11:03:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: ... well (and probably more descriptive)
21-01-22 11:03:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Well, negro is Spanish for black.
21-01-22 11:03:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Indeed
21-01-22 11:04:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It's latin I think
21-01-22 11:04:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: originally
21-01-22 11:04:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> lmfao I'm sure you must have  heard Chef's chocolate salty balls song from South Park.
21-01-22 11:04:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I guess so yeah
21-01-22 11:07:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yeah, before Chef was outed brutally from South Park because the voice actor was a ... was it Schientologist, and he didn't like them joking about that?
21-01-22 11:07:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah.
21-01-22 11:07:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> He wasn't ousted, he quit.
21-01-22 11:08:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Right, but as I recall, the character was brutally killed in response on-screen
21-01-22 11:08:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Man, I hate shopping for new chairs. The one I had for 6.5 years finally broke yesterday.
21-01-22 11:08:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Internet sales killed retail stores and that means that nobody bothers to have showroom floorspace for office chairs.
21-01-22 11:08:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> So there's no way to tell if a chair is any good before buying it.
21-01-22 11:09:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Haha, yeah he probably was.
21-01-22 11:15:51: [Public] |cxddq|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-22 11:15:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Sup xddq.
21-01-22 11:16:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi xddq
21-01-22 11:16:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Welcome to the party. πŸ₯³
21-01-22 11:17:40: [Public] |cxddq|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-22 11:18:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Griatch I dunno if you saw what Volund said earlier, but maybe he's right about people not wanting to be bothered when they connect.
21-01-22 11:18:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's lots of folks with anxiety who might feel uncomfortable being called out when all they want to do is quietly explore.
21-01-22 11:18:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> But also I feel like if someone actually wants to discuss something, they'll speak up.
21-01-22 11:19:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Hopefully the demo says somewhere that if nobody responds it means that everyone is asleep and directs them to try joining the IRC or Discord or even the new Discussions page.
21-01-22 11:19:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: So just ignore us ... yeah, that's a poor argument I think. They are joining a public multiplayer game. And yeah, the demo lays this out.
21-01-22 11:20:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the demo is there for that after all
21-01-22 11:21:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it's one of its strength I guess
21-01-22 11:21:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ha, here is a bug and I finally can reproduce it. Bugs can't hide in the shadow anymore
21-01-22 11:22:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ... or can they? It's working again :''(
21-01-22 11:22:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> lol
21-01-22 11:22:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: darn it, I thought I had it!
21-01-22 11:24:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I dunno. When I join a new guild in World of Warcraft I see the guild leader sending out welcome messages to a bunch of people who never respond and it's kinda pathetic. I always leave a guild if I see that, because the leader is clearly trying too hard and it comes across as manufactured. Not to say that the Evennia demo is the same situation.
21-01-22 11:25:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: That sounds like a poor reason to leave a guild IMO, I'd see that as a sign of activity. But then again I only ever played the two free weeks of WoW and was not impressed.
21-01-22 11:25:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Would you rather be ignored completely by higher ups? :V
21-01-22 11:25:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> That's the issue though, it's not a sign of activity. It's a sign of a desperate leader trying to generate activity artificially.
21-01-22 11:26:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Ok. Different game cultures I guess
21-01-22 11:26:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Nah, but recognize that most people only join the guild for the perks and not to actually socialize. Respond to people who engage IMO.
21-01-22 11:26:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah I suppose I'm also a bit of a jerk too haha.
21-01-22 11:26:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I hate joining groups in general, so I'm biased.
21-01-22 11:26:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: WoW is pretty different too, lots of players if I recall
21-01-22 11:27:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yeah for sure. It's one of the most anti-social social games I've ever played.
21-01-22 11:27:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> 98% of the time I spend in it is playing by myself.
21-01-22 11:27:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: lol
21-01-22 11:27:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Most activities can be done alone and the ones that can't you can just find 4 other random people and never speak to them and then leave when the activity is finished.
21-01-22 11:28:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, different culture, though you could argue, the demo has no culture perse, it's a showroom. But still we're in a pretty small community, I guess that should be respected
21-01-22 11:28:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I just felt like Volund made a good point, because I see his argument as valid.
21-01-22 11:29:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Not that I care if the demo people feel bothered by our greetings, but clearly there's little desire to engage socially when they are connecting and never responding.
21-01-22 11:29:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it seems like my blueprints are randomly applied twice in a row... sometimes. Now why would they be... and why would the game crash when it happens
21-01-22 11:30:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: yeah, I see the point. I still find it sad, but then
21-01-22 11:31:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: To be honest, I doubt our greeting has anything to do with it. I suspect they'd drop in, look around and then leave anyway.
21-01-22 11:31:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> My point of bringing up the World of Warcraft example is that it's common for folk to join things and not engage.
21-01-22 11:32:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I'm still going to greet the demo folk when I see them around, cause sometimes you get a bite and you can reel in a tasty fish.
21-01-22 11:32:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: haaaa I like the comparison
21-01-22 11:33:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> πŸ˜„
21-01-22 11:35:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: two rooms with the same barcode... where do they come from...
21-01-22 11:38:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: ha! got you
21-01-22 11:42:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: okay I've found it. The ways it applies my blueprint cannot be predicted, and when I have two rooms in my blueprint, connected with an exit, when it applies the first one it realizes it can't find the destination for the exit (since the room doesn't yet exit) and defers to a second wave. But when the second wave arrives it complains the room already exist (which it does). But this only happens when blueprints are applied in an
21-01-22 11:42:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: order and not in another, and I can't do much about that, I need to have my room documents (portion of the blueprint) smart enough to anticipate this situation
21-01-22 11:43:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, blueprints are great, I can store whatever I want in a file, makes building so much easier, especially when there's no database migration around :D but sometimes you're in for a surprise
21-01-22 11:59:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Do you mean prototypes?
21-01-22 12:10:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Kovitikus: yes and no. blueprints are the ddefinition of objects. They're more like things in a batch file. Their job is to never replicate, to only update. My current blueprint has four rooms with exits and an account (so I don't have to recreate it each time)
21-01-22 12:10:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: blueprints are checked on start, and applied if they have changed
21-01-22 12:10:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Huh... ok interesting.
21-01-22 12:11:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: they're human-readable (in YML) but they're usually modified by an interface (can be the web interface or the graphical map, whichever). And actually buliding commands in-game modify the blueprint now, instead of modifying the world directly. That's just another way to build
21-01-22 12:12:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I've chosen it because we're trying to work offline as much as possible, and buliding from the game itself won't be allowed in production
21-01-22 12:16:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh man, that's fantastic. There's so many folk lately who have been concerned about building directly to the database, but they also don't like the idea of pure batch code not being builder friendly.
21-01-22 12:16:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and the advantage is that you can contribute without having the data of the world itself, which means you can work in standalone, if you feel like it. The lead builder will just have to give you limits, probably corners in coordinate you cannot build past or something like this. And of course you still need a lot of sync, but that's the basic idea anyway
21-01-22 12:17:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Is there anything specifically built-in with Evennia for blueprints or any guide or tutorial existing to explain that to people?
21-01-22 12:17:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yep I was struggling with exactly the same problem
21-01-22 12:17:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: my builders aren't coders ad they don't want to become coders
21-01-22 12:18:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> There's also some recent horror stories of people who have built everything directly on the database and have now ran into issues where they may lose all of their work.
21-01-22 12:18:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: nope, I created something that still works in Evennia, but it would need to be updated. I'm not sure it has its place in Evennia vanilla, but perhaps as a contrib
21-01-22 12:18:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I suggested batch code, but blueprint sounds like a much better system for long term sustainability.
21-01-22 12:19:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it has its drawbacks though, blueprints aren't a perfect solution
21-01-22 12:19:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Well I would personally be interested in understanding how to build a blueprint system, because I don't want anybody building anything in my DB directly, but I'd like for others to be able to contribute without me having to translate everything into code manually.
21-01-22 12:19:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Ahh ok.
21-01-22 12:19:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, I ran into that same issue several times. Like I started buliding and all of a sudden, the database exploded in a way I could hardly understand. I repaired it manually. Thankfully Evennia is stable enough this doesn't happen a lot (at least it never did to me)
21-01-22 12:21:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: well, I'm certainly in, if others are interested. My "old" blueprint system (which wasn't even called that back then) should still work in Evennia. It would require some work because it was pretty close to the skin, but it sure can be updated and made into a contrib if others are interested. Or kept in Ainneve or something
21-01-22 12:22:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: actually the system I use now is more verbose, because I don't have a single database table for everything. Evennia won't have this problem, so blueprints could be pretty much standardized, the way prototypes are
21-01-22 12:24:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> I was actually hoping for a tutorial to explain how to make it, but maybe the contrib can explain it just as well.
21-01-22 12:24:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the workflow I have for someone wishing to contribute to Avenew is as follows: I send them a "name index" which is just a short JSON file with already used names, so that they don't conflict with whatever has been created (just the names though, no sensitive data). Then they get their copy of the game running on their computer. Thjey can use building commands on their installation, or the web interface, or a graphical map. And
21-01-22 12:24:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: when they're satisfied they just send me the finished blueprint (which is a YML file) and I integrate it if m pleased. I've inserted another step in between to run on a test server, but that's not useful for everyone
21-01-22 12:24:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> What's the name of the contrib?
21-01-22 12:25:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the contrib doesn't exist yet :) it's in my old code for Avenew, and it's not that pretty
21-01-22 12:25:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh.
21-01-22 12:25:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it still requires some work though, so a contrib and tutorial might be the way. But Griatch will have his say on this idea
21-01-22 12:26:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but it shouldn't be too hard to do. I've done it once
21-01-22 12:27:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: time to eat, beback later
21-01-22 12:27:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Enjoy!
21-01-22 12:46:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: back, though at odd times, I'm almost beginning the work for this afernoon :)
21-01-22 16:17:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [fork]|H robmayes69 forked evennia|H <https://github.com/robmayes69/evennia|H>
21-01-22 16:42:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Eww, YML.
21-01-22 16:46:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: you don't like YML ?
21-01-22 16:46:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm still amazed some don't like it :P I personally see it quite beautiful, in comparison to JSON
21-01-22 16:46:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: not adapted to every task obviously, JSON usually is a bit less verbose
21-01-22 16:47:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> The syntax is so fiddly
21-01-22 16:48:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I've seen ugly YML too
21-01-22 16:49:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I prefer it sparse, I'm not a huge fan of the nested syntax. But for humans I find it pretty readable, and much easier than some
21-01-22 16:51:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I prefer JSON
21-01-22 16:53:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> The game I am helping out on runs AresMUSH and YML is used to store config data for modules >.<
21-01-22 16:54:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I guess I just dislike systems that use whitespace for formatting
21-01-22 17:15:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: Darren: you mean like Python? :P
21-01-22 17:15:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Python isn't as finicky as YML πŸ™‚
21-01-22 17:16:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, YML is often used for config. perhaps I don't mind working with YML because I'm familiar with the syntax now
21-01-22 17:16:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> But yes, I did hate that aspect of Python at first, but I got used to it
21-01-22 17:17:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: in ny case, having blueprints in JSON wouldn't... hum
21-01-22 17:17:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: actually it might work. Wouldn't have been my first choice but it's not like it's a huge difference anyway
21-01-22 17:18:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Python has spoiled me. When I write C code, I find myself leaving off the trailing semi-colons. When I code in Ruby, I find myself inserting colons after if and def statements >.<
21-01-22 17:18:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it's really  interesting (and I mean it quite literally). People complain about indentation in Python, yet they say they indent their code in other languages too, so I've always wondered: why the aversion? I guess I'm missing something (and I'm biaised, obviously, it's not easy to trick met with tabs/spaces)
21-01-22 17:18:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: do you like Ruby?
21-01-22 17:19:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I find some aspects of the langugage quie interesting
21-01-22 17:19:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: others not so much, but then no language is perfect
21-01-22 17:19:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It helps to have visual markers to delimit code blocks
21-01-22 17:19:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> For example, {} in C and begin/end in Ruby
21-01-22 17:19:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: agreed
21-01-22 17:20:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I was quite happy when I cameback to easy {} in Rust
21-01-22 17:20:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: though I don't mind indentation in Python now
21-01-22 17:20:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> You get used to how Python does it, but I would still prefer block markers
21-01-22 17:21:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: yeah, I understand
21-01-22 17:22:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I guess the reason I fell in love with Rust is that it's quite... PEP-8 compliant :P . Someone who has coded with Python a lot won't be much surprised about the syntax, though there is some change of course
21-01-22 17:23:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I am not at all familiar with Rust
21-01-22 17:23:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: what I don't really appreciate in Rust is that they have a lot of methods to do the exact same thing. I find that quite dconfusing. Again I think that's just a matter of habit
21-01-22 17:23:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and some things I really quite like in Ruby, like the property syntax
21-01-22 17:24:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Ruby is awesome ❀️
21-01-22 17:24:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I've been doing a lot of coding in Ruby lately
21-01-22 17:24:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I like Rust but... it's not a gentle learning curve
21-01-22 17:24:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it has a lot of interesting concepts, but it can be quite hard to code in it at first. And I'm not past the "difficult part" just yet
21-01-22 17:24:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Right
21-01-22 17:25:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: if you code in Ares, it makes sense :) . I haven't seen the code for this project
21-01-22 17:25:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I dunno if I would understand it. My Ruby is pretty rusted
21-01-22 17:26:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> ruby    def subheader(str=nil, width=78)         if str.nil? || str.size == 0             return line         else             l = str.size +2             lsp = rsp = (width - l) / 2             rsp += (width -l) % 2             return "%x27%xH#{lsp * '-'}%xw#{str}%x27%xH#{rsp * '-'}%xn"         end     end
21-01-22 17:26:39: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Easy peasy
21-01-22 17:28:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hu yeah
21-01-22 17:28:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: it doesn't look too different from Pythyoh, and these days I mostly code in Python, even at work
21-01-22 17:29:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: though I guess I'll start C# again next week, we'll see
21-01-22 17:29:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's very Python-like, yeah. In some ways.
21-01-22 17:30:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the optional-return thingie bothered me at first
21-01-22 17:30:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> The return statement in that example isn't needed
21-01-22 17:30:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: and then i got used to it. thats one thing rust choose to implement in their syntax too and it's not that straightforward in Rust seeing as a return statement can very well be an if or loop block :D
21-01-22 17:31:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> The biggest difference that I have found is that with Ruby, only nil and false are logically false, so you can't use short circuit boolean evaluation the same way you can in Python.
21-01-22 17:31:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> ie empty strings are true, the number 0, etc
21-01-22 17:32:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I don't know if this is a bad thing
21-01-22 17:32:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: truthy values aren't always that useful and, mostly, not always intuitive to use
21-01-22 17:32:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> This is totally backwards from any other language I know except for MOOcode
21-01-22 17:32:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: granted, I don't much like None or nil either
21-01-22 17:33:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: or null or whatever else is used
21-01-22 17:34:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> At least in Ruby it's 'nil' rather than 'Nil'
21-01-22 17:34:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> That's something else that annoys me about Python
21-01-22 17:37:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: the naming convention for builtin types and None and True/False? You're not alone :D
21-01-22 17:37:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Yes, that
21-01-22 18:42:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> who
21-01-22 18:42:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> oops
21-01-22 21:19:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> so I discovered something iiiiiinteresting recently
21-01-22 21:21:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Stop stalling and tell us!!! D8<
21-01-22 21:23:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> well you know how I kept going on about how I'm inspired by Star Wars Galaxies when I'm thinking about how to design everything?
21-01-22 21:24:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> turns out: the source code to Star Wars Galaxies was leaked half a decade ago and I missed the memo.
21-01-22 21:24:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> both the server and the client
21-01-22 21:24:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> it's the 'after SOE ruined it with the New Game Experience aka NGE' version, some months short of the final patch, but
21-01-22 21:24:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> even so it still has most of the features that I loved about SWG and so I've been studying the code...
21-01-22 21:25:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> .... is it a good thing or a bad thing when you peek under the hood and learn that your "How I think they did it" suspicions are correct - they actually designed it the way you think they did?
21-01-22 21:26:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> because, I note rather interestingly....
21-01-22 21:26:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> SWG's database schema for how it handles in-game objects is actually remarkably similar to... Evennia, -and- MUSH/MUX databases.
21-01-22 22:16:05: [Public] |cdesiato|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-22 22:53:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Hi desiato :D
21-01-22 23:02:23: [Public] |cdesiato|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-23 00:51:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I've actually been playing on a 'rogue' SWG server
21-01-23 00:52:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Always hated that game's UI but game play itself was quite fun
21-01-23 01:31:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Skye|H> SWG feels very much like a MUD with an UI at itmes.
21-01-23 01:52:42: [Public] |cgamerdude|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-23 01:53:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It really does
21-01-23 02:04:20: [Public] |cgamerdude|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-23 04:08:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H srmeier commented on issue #2306|H (Make use of environmental variables for superuser creation) in evennia|H: > Haven't tested this yet, but to answer your question - the[708 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2306#issuecomment-765862450|H>)
21-01-23 04:24:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issue comment]|H srmeier commented on issue #2306|H (Make use of environmental variables for superuser creation) in evennia|H: Made the code a little more clear and I am also now explicit[70 more]|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/pull/2306#issuecomment-765864198|H>)
21-01-23 09:14:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hi Evennia!
21-01-23 09:38:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Hi Vincent!
21-01-23 10:00:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: hoooo 3.10alpha is available!
21-01-23 10:03:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> weeeew!
21-01-23 10:03:51: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: but the match keyword isn't here yet :(
21-01-23 10:04:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: vincent-lg@#evennia: I'm still using 3.8 in production, though I guess we'll leap to 3.9 soon enough
21-01-23 16:44:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I didn't realize that 3.9 was out already.
21-01-23 16:44:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Man, Python sure gets updated a lot
21-01-23 16:55:34: [Public] |clelk|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-23 16:56:06: [Public] |clelk|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-23 17:07:53: [Public] |clelk|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-23 19:33:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Currently at a Renaissance fair over in Melbourne Ran into a dude dressed up as Link from legend of Zelda...  Walked up behind... intoned "The sword that seals the darkness.... the blade of evil's bane..." then casually, "I am Error."  Dude cracked up
21-01-24 03:18:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes, but did you RAWR at him or nibble on him?
21-01-24 05:09:28: [Public] |cvaca-loka|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-24 05:10:39: [Public] |cvaca-loka|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-24 16:23:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: hansb@#evennia: hellos everyone.. I tried to change the goldenlayout to 5 frames as described in the docu.. now chrome has 5 frames but firefox still has the old setup with 3 frames even after a clear cache.. what could this be? anyone of you stumbled into this?
21-01-24 16:53:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Yes, you have to clear your cookies and stuff on the browser so the layout refreshes. hansb
21-01-24 18:37:26: [Public] |cNYX|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-24 18:38:00: [Public] |cNYX|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-24 18:40:20: [Public] |cNYX|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-24 19:33:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: blorp@#evennia: Hello
21-01-24 19:34:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: blorp@#evennia: Where in the evennia source code can i find the part that lets items be tagged by 1-item or 2-item?
21-01-24 19:36:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: blorp@#evennia: So someone can do get 3-item for instance
21-01-24 19:45:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: blorp@#evennia: Hello
21-01-24 20:20:10: [Public] |clelk|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-24 20:36:11: [Public] |clelk|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-24 20:36:50: [Public] |clelk|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-24 21:29:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> blorp it's called multimatch inside the settings.
21-01-24 21:30:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> https://github.com/evennia/evennia/blob/master/evennia/settings_default.py#L302
21-01-24 21:30:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Just make sure that you override the setting inside your project folder settings under server/conf/settings.py
21-01-25 03:13:45: [Public] |cEnola|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-25 03:14:24: [Public] Enola: Hi, help
21-01-25 03:16:01: [Public] Enola: So lonley!
21-01-25 03:16:22: [Public] Enola: I am alone absolutely.
21-01-25 03:17:33: [Public] Enola: I know I want to push this button.
21-01-25 03:18:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <j3zibl|H> Hi Enola.
21-01-25 03:19:25: [Public] Enola: Hi.
21-01-25 03:19:34: [Public] |cEnola|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-25 03:20:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> lmfao wtf...
21-01-25 09:11:53: [Public] |cBrad|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-25 10:02:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi there Brad
21-01-25 10:18:19: [Public] |cBrad|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-25 10:57:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Bye there Brad.
21-01-25 14:23:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Push the button, Frank.
21-01-25 17:04:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Sup Evennia
21-01-25 17:38:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <j3zibl|H> hey
21-01-25 18:00:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Dead up in here, that's what's up I guess. πŸ™‚
21-01-25 18:00:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <j3zibl|H> searching for signs of life
21-01-25 18:00:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> SpaceX Pad Cleared for possible SN9 Hop Attempt today.
21-01-25 18:01:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <j3zibl|H> Oh so it is.  Weird I thought they did 9 already.
21-01-25 18:05:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <friar|H> They launched/crashed SN8 about a month ago.  We're all hoping they've fixed the low-fuel pressure from that run and can stick the landing this time.
21-01-25 18:05:35: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Natalie|H> This was me yes.
21-01-25 18:06:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Natalie|H> For auto walking from A -> B by finding the best path
21-01-25 18:47:13: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> rawr
21-01-25 20:58:15: [Public] |csokabs|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-25 21:21:45: [Public] |csokabs|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-25 21:23:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Bye sokabs.
21-01-25 21:29:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Thenomain|H> Whassap Evenniaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
21-01-25 21:30:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Oh my.
21-01-25 21:54:01: [Public] |cFederal|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-25 21:58:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: No SN9 jump today, unfortunately.
21-01-25 22:02:23: [Public] Federal: is that another person out there?
21-01-25 22:02:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Sure
21-01-25 22:02:50: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi there
21-01-25 22:02:54: [Public] Federal: wow, feels retro to see someone in a place like this.
21-01-25 22:03:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Well, you are in the demo game, most of us sit in the developer channel (IRC or Discord)
21-01-25 22:03:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: There are a few of us :D
21-01-25 22:03:51: [Public] Federal )
21-01-25 22:04:02: [Public] Federal: *smiles*
21-01-25 22:04:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Just checking things out, Federal?
21-01-25 22:04:37: [Public] Federal: Yeah, I'm looking for an engine to do a project I've been thinking about.
21-01-25 22:05:22: [Public] Federal: While I had something more "rougelike" in mind, this is very fascinating.
21-01-25 22:06:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Cool. Well, just ask if you have any questions. The demo gives some examples of what can be done, but Evennia's very flexible beyond that. We have people doing roguelikes in Evennia too, actually (with overhead map and stuff, even though such a map is not available out of the box)
21-01-25 22:06:49: [Public] Federal: Great to know!  I'll check that out.
21-01-25 22:07:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Are you familiar with any programming language from before?
21-01-25 22:08:32: [Public] Federal: I'm quite good at python and I've made an incomplete game in pygame.
21-01-25 22:09:59: [Public] Federal: My current project is another roguelike with some flashy character graphics. I want to make a mesh deformed character system.
21-01-25 22:09:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Awesome, then you have a good head start.
21-01-25 22:10:34: [Public] Federal: but I'm also trying to make a text based one in the mean time.
21-01-25 22:11:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: So Rogue-like text-based as well, or some other genre?
21-01-25 22:12:20: [Public] Federal: I'm trying to make one with graphics yes, but what I'm trying to do is rather difficult. so I'm trying to make a text based game in the mean time.
21-01-25 22:12:44: [Public] Federal: The graphics thing is more of a techdemo than a game as it sits.
21-01-25 22:14:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I see. So testing out the other systems without graphics first, something like that?
21-01-25 22:24:31: [Public] |cFederal|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-25 22:33:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I finished a paper doc of my rules, so I can... just make the prototype now. Gosh.
21-01-25 23:02:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Skye|H> The documentation bit is the hardest part for me.
21-01-25 23:03:01: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Skye|H> I can write code all day, but I have a terrible time putting my ideas into paper.
21-01-25 23:04:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: j3b@#evennia: I'm better at documentation than codeing... but that is because I am a terrible coder.
21-01-25 23:04:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: j3b@#evennia: also terrible at typing
21-01-25 23:04:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: j3b@#evennia: coding
21-01-25 23:05:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Unless it's something I've never attempted before, I don't bother documenting usually
21-01-25 23:05:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> \
21-01-25 23:09:08: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Skye|H> i prefer to have some kind of impl documentation I can refer back to make sure I dont forget how I wanted to do it
21-01-25 23:10:09: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I usually have a good idea of what I want before I even start coding. This is one of the benefits of having been in the hobby for a while. Changes are, whatever the game needs, you've already done it at some point
21-01-25 23:10:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I find myself porting a lot of code from MOO and ColdMUD
21-01-25 23:12:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Of course, straight ports really aren't the way to go because the resulting system probably isn't very efficient. You usually have to refactor some stuff to take advantage of Evennia's design, Python features, etc
21-01-25 23:16:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> I love being able to replace entire functions with a single list comprehension ❀️
21-01-25 23:17:44: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> I’m ADD and get lost in the weeds really fucking easy, so the more I have written down the better - if I forget my goal, I can see my list, and see how I already decided how to do it.
21-01-25 23:20:43: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> It's easy enough when you're dealing with a bunch of complex, inter-connected systems
21-01-25 23:21:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> My problem is, I keep going back and changing stuff, which means rewriting a lot of code
21-01-25 23:33:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> This is trueee
21-01-25 23:43:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Woo! Het sneeuwt!
21-01-25 23:43:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> oops wrong window
21-01-26 00:10:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Gesundheit
21-01-26 00:39:47: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Don't speak Dutch, eh?
21-01-26 01:33:14: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Hattiehats|H> Nah, just English. Was never good at other languages.
21-01-26 03:25:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: TwistedBlizzard@#evennia: Hi all, I've just got some new hardware to host my evennia server and in the process of moving eveything across, I hae lost the ablility to connect. My process for moving things was to copy everything apart from the evenv from the old server to the new one and then create a new virtualenv and install evennia into that through pip before launching
21-01-26 03:25:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: TwistedBlizzard@#evennia: the server.
21-01-26 03:25:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: TwistedBlizzard@#evennia: Oh, I also registered evennia as a Systemd service. systemctl status evennia assures me that it is running.
21-01-26 04:32:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <TwistedBlizzard|H> I'll be lurking here as well so if you have any thoughts, feel free to mention me.
21-01-26 05:10:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [fork]|H johnny-zoop forked evennia|H <https://github.com/johnny-zoop/evennia|H>
21-01-26 05:24:07: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <TwistedBlizzard|H> So, funny thing... I think this is the same issue I was talking about last time I posted here around 6 months ago - I never did get around to making that pull request. Maybe it's time - could someone talk me through it whenever they get a chance? My git-fu is a little rusty
21-01-26 05:26:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: There may or may not be a todo list on my desktop of "Evennia PRs"
21-01-26 05:43:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <TwistedBlizzard|H> Just to go over it again, the issue is with the systemd .service file. It requires the line Environment="PATH=/path/to/python/virtual/environment/bin. Without this line, it fails to find twisted and crashes somewhat silently, the only trace being in journalctl. The service itself remains active.
21-01-26 05:55:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: I'm a bit swamped at the moment but what you're saying seems sound. Unless twisted is installed into the system python vs the virtualenv. I've been in k8s/Docker land so long that I'm not sure what is correct for deploying Python services on Linux proper is anymore.
21-01-26 05:56:42: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Have you opened an issue for it on GitHub? That seems like the best place for async comms
21-01-26 05:56:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: And folks can search for it if they encounter the same.
21-01-26 06:02:11: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <TwistedBlizzard|H> Ok, I shall do that - I was told last time to fork and make a pull request but it did seem like a lot of effort for what is a one line fix
21-01-26 06:17:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: evenniacode@#evennia: [issues]|H TwistedBlizzard opened|H issue #2307|H in evennia|H: [BUG] systemd service doesn't start the server|H (<https://github.com/evennia/evennia/issues/2307|H>)
21-01-26 06:47:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> This video reminds me of some of the complaints vincent-lg has made about very basic design functions getting overlooked when it comes to handicap accessibility. https://youtu.be/iBADy6-gDBY
21-01-26 06:49:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> If vincent is around and sees the message, it's a video about a lady who purchased a clothes washing unit and the screen is all digital, so she can't feel around for which button she needs to push. The phone app is also inaccessible, because it relies on her holding down a button on the machine for 3 seconds to use the functionality.
21-01-26 06:52:32: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Honestly, even as a person who can see, I don't like the all digital screens they are placing on stuff these days. Buttons are satisfying to push and I'm constantly tapping stuff multiple times on my washers and dryers, because sometimes they don't respond.
21-01-26 08:06:48: [Public] |cttt|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-26 08:09:10: [Public] |cttt|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-26 10:58:55: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Bye ttt.
21-01-26 12:57:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Bah, busy days at work right now.
21-01-26 12:58:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: All work and no play.
21-01-26 13:31:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> Same here, griatch 😦 so much shit to do, so little time
21-01-26 15:44:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Darren|H> Meanwhile I've had lots of free time lately but no incentive to play :/
21-01-26 16:01:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> @Griatch hey. Long shot because it has been a while. Do you have any pycharm licenses still available?
21-01-26 16:13:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Let me look
21-01-26 16:15:21: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Tavis: Yep. PM me (in IRC) your contact info and I will send you the licensing link.
21-01-26 16:16:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: I need email and last/first name to use for the license
21-01-26 16:16:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> Okay. Let me figure out how to ping you in irc. I haven’t used that before
21-01-26 16:17:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Connect and then `/msg Griatch <text>`
21-01-26 16:17:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: evennia.com has a link to a webclient for IRC
21-01-26 16:17:59: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> Okay one sec. thanks
21-01-26 16:20:26: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tavis|H> Did you get my irc msg?
21-01-26 16:26:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yep, all set up
21-01-26 16:36:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: uysd_@#evennia:  /msg griatch testing this text, if you see this say yes
21-01-26 16:36:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Yes, but you are now in the main channel
21-01-26 16:36:30: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: uysd_@#evennia:  /msg Griatch testing this text, if you see this say yes
21-01-26 16:36:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Maybe you have turned off messaging
21-01-26 16:36:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: It ends up in the main channel for some reason
21-01-26 16:38:06: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: uysd_@#evennia: this appears on public
21-01-26 16:41:12: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: uysd_: Btw, this is how my IRSSI IRC view looks right now: https://postimg.cc/Cd9MBB5z
21-01-26 16:47:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: uysd_@#evennia: \quit
21-01-26 16:47:48: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: uysd_@#evennia: \q
21-01-26 16:47:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: uysd_@#evennia: quit
21-01-26 16:49:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Use / :)
21-01-26 16:57:17: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Seems to be a space before /msg (there should not be)
21-01-26 16:57:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: jerryaldrichiii@#evennia: Oh, they're gone.
21-01-26 18:31:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> grah
21-01-26 18:31:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> so much to learn
21-01-26 18:31:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> *bites Griatch to vampire some brainpower
21-01-26 18:33:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> so Griatch! I've been studying various projects and how they're put together as I ponder designs.
21-01-26 18:35:37: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> have come to some frustrating-as-hell conclusions, too
21-01-26 18:53:40: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Volund: Oh?
21-01-26 19:05:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> yeah
21-01-26 19:05:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> So
21-01-26 19:07:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> As you might remember, one of the things that I feel is very important for a MUD world engine is that one ought to be able to define content in modules - as in, these modules should contain areas, the NPCs that exist in them, item defintions, etc, but it must be done in such a way that entities generated during playtime can co-exist with them in the engine. Well, I learned how that works in Skyrim/Fallout...  And the way it works is
21-01-26 19:07:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: utterly incompatible with both MUSH/MUX and Evennia and that pisses me off
21-01-26 19:07:36: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> to explain:
21-01-26 19:11:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> the way it works in the Creation Engine (Skyrim/Modern Fallout) is-  The engine uses 32-bit IDs for both its 'Form IDs' (effectively object prototypes/templates/definitions) and 'Reference IDs', used to target an actual Object in-game - an 'instance'. However, the first byte of that 32-bit ID denotes its MODULE SLOT - the engine can load Modules in slots of 0-254, leaving 24 bits for the ID within the module. (so, roughly 8.3 million Form
21-01-26 19:11:29: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: Ids, and 8.3 million Reference IDs, can be added, per module).  255 is special - this module space is reserved for the 'save game'. Objects generated during play - such as random encounters, random loot, or entities spawned by the player, use 255 - hence, their Ref ID begins with FF in the console.
21-01-26 19:12:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> This scheme allows for the entire game world to be sequentially assembled out of 1 to 254 module packages (with some files able to modify/override/patch content in earlier ones), but has the downside that you better be DAMN SURE to never change the order they load in once you've added a module.
21-01-26 19:14:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> (another interesting factoid: Creation Engine saves the game state as a collection of things like 'deltas' applied to hard-coded entities, the entire dump of all FF entities, and the stack dumps of all running scripts - and this is why saves can break so easily when you mess with mods)
21-01-26 19:15:10: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> RimWorld on the other hand, I was more interested in checking out how it handles its data architecture... and I found that its prototyping system is actually pretty similar to Evennia's, with the note that it's using XML of course.
21-01-26 19:16:05: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> Sadly I don't see much of this information being immediately useful to Evennia or Athanor.
21-01-26 19:16:19: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> But it has me thinking.
21-01-26 19:18:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> that said
21-01-26 19:20:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> a scheme where you can assemble the world like how the Creation Engine does it from a number of pieces implies that the kinds of things the module can do and contain are more or less fixed.
21-01-26 19:23:03: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> overall though, it doesn't sound very compatible with using SQL. you technically could use it for just data storage, but...
21-01-26 19:24:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> I'm not sure I follow you, in python its as easy as importing a package, why overcomplicate it? In my case I have a module level listing with a register decorator, packages import the register decorator. They do nothing as long as the package itself is not imported so it is easy to do at a config level
21-01-26 19:25:15: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kektus|H> why should it be harder than that?
21-01-26 19:26:04: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> buh? that's not at all what I'm talking about
21-01-26 19:28:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> this ties in with the older idea I was throwing around with 'virtual objects' - things like rooms and items that are added to the game world by some kind of module/code.
21-01-26 19:35:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tehom|H> Virtual objects aren't hard to implement, but the complexity of refactoring search may not gain you any benefit over short-lived rows that you insert/delete as needed in the ObjectDB table
21-01-26 19:36:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Tehom|H> On the other hand, if your modules are very large then there'd be more of an argument, since you could be talking about thousands of rows whenever a module is loaded/removed, or whatever
21-01-26 19:39:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> well I'm kinda going at it from the angle of 'hmmmmmm. if I was going to start from scratch, what approaches would be worth considering?'
21-01-27 01:27:31: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: j3b@#evennia: Evennia channels - so the default install comes with two channels enabled: public and mudinfo.  My first task is to disable both.
21-01-27 01:43:23: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: j3b@#evennia: "
21-01-27 01:43:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: j3b@#evennia: or not
21-01-27 04:10:51: [Public] |cjohnny|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-27 04:21:19: [Public] |cjohnny|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-27 04:26:24: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Volund|H> yeah unfortunately the channels are a bit too baked in.... that's gotta be fixed, methinks
21-01-27 06:04:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> β™« 99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer. Take one down, pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall! β™«
21-01-27 08:33:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: The channels can be changed in settings, but the system does use the mudinfo (or whatever you name it) for output in several places.
21-01-27 08:47:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> New project (the fifth or sixth one I've started ... ). I keep starting new projects as my ideas change and I want to try new things. I don't have much to say about this project yet, other than I'm trying some (new) things that some players will like, some will not (such as most character actions being simply toggled on/off, like 'combat mode', etc, rather than inputing 'slash kobold', 'fight shark', etc). Anyway, I'll post more
21-01-27 08:47:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: pics/maps/info when it's further along ...
21-01-27 08:47:53: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/803909126245056522/example_b.jpg
21-01-27 08:50:27: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi Zood. NIce, that looks quite advanced already!
21-01-27 08:50:41: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Zoood, even
21-01-27 08:52:02: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> Yes, thanks. I'm pulling code and bits-and-pieces from my previous projects.
21-01-27 08:52:38: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: So this looks like fantasy; the mapping is nice.
21-01-27 08:56:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> The mini-map is the one thing that's been a bit of a thorn-in-my-side with previous projects ... how to get it to 'pop up' quickly, and also relay info on what mobs and items are nearby.  In the pic above, the rooms simply have a self.db.map string that is displayed, creating the map. One thing I've noticed is that strings containing lots of colour changes (or the highlight-colours, like in the pic) take a lot longer to display. More
21-01-27 08:56:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: computer-thinking, I suppose.
21-01-27 08:58:18: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Is the slowdown in the display or in the addition of color markers?
21-01-27 09:00:58: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> not sure what you mean, but if I have a book that is then read, thus displaying the book.db.book_text, even if the text is loooong, it will display after only a second or so ... but with strings like room maps, they could be effectively only 10% of the book-length, but contain a whole bunch of colour changes, and it might take 3 seconds to display. Of course, the CPU power of my PC has something to do with it.
21-01-27 09:01:34: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hm, are you using an EvTable to display these things?
21-01-27 09:02:52: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> yes :          table = evtable.EvTable(border="header")         table.add_row("%s" % condition_string, "%s" % map_string, "%s" % self.show_items(looker))         room_string += ("\n%s" % table)  thats just a snippet
21-01-27 09:03:54: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: One interesting thing is what happeens if you turn off colors for your map (disable color for Evennia in your client settings), does it display faster then or not? If not, then it's the generation of the string (the build of EvTable) that is slow and not the display of colors itself.
21-01-27 09:05:46: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: For example `option nocolor=True`
21-01-27 09:07:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> ok, that's worth testing, thanks
21-01-27 09:10:22: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hint - it's most likely the EvTable generation; EvTable is convenient, but it needs to do a lot of work to balance and re-balance a table as it grows (you can add rows of different lengths and it will automatically fill in empty cells to make the table a rectangle, for example). This adds some overhead. There is a ticket for optimizing EvTable for more 'limited' use, when you know the exact input sizes
21-01-27 09:10:28: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: beforehand.
21-01-27 09:19:00: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: @Zoood I like how the skeleton thug in your example screenshot takes a potshot at a god and hits :D
21-01-27 09:23:20: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> haha !
21-01-27 09:41:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> Whoa ! I've just noticed a weird thing that's happening. When creating this new project I created a new folder "dev4", where the custom typeclass files, etc, live. That's all fine. What's weird is that the server window is using files from the older dev3 folder ... the base/core evennia files. Something wiggy happened during the 'evennia migrate' phase, perhaps. Human error (my error) most likely. Strange, eh !
21-01-27 09:41:56: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/246323978879107073/803922730659217428/unknown.png
21-01-27 09:45:45: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: The server.py is the core Evennia itself, you don't need to put that in a new folder to start a new project ?
21-01-27 09:46:16: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: You are looking at the core evennia files there, not your gamedir files
21-01-27 09:46:49: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Normally, you'd have evennia/ as one folder and then mygame/ as another one next to it (or dev1, dev2, whatever)
21-01-27 09:49:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> ahh, i see.
21-01-27 09:49:57: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Zoood|H> funny how we come so far ... and yet something simple can still elude us ...
21-01-27 09:59:43: [Public] |cjustarius|n just |gconnected|n to the Evennia demo for the first time!
21-01-27 10:00:33: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: Griatch@#evennia: Hi justarius. Ask of you have any questions. :)
21-01-27 10:03:00: [Public] |cjustarius|n |rdisconnected|n from the Evennia demo.
21-01-27 12:44:25: [Public] ircbot-evdemo: DiscordBot@#evennia: <Kovitikus|H> Bye justarius.
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